TerryP
Staff
Invert this.
Think of all we could do if we didn't have to pay as much tax as we do.
You have a humanistic approach to life but don't believe in humanity?
| CURRENT EVENTS Politicians and Judges Know More Than Doctors?
- Thread starter ElephantStomp
- Start date
Think of all we could do if we didn't have to pay as much tax as we do.
You have a humanistic approach to life but don't believe in humanity?
ElephantStomp
Member
It is fundamentally true. Whether you agree with abortion doesn’t change that fact and no amount of faith in some being changes that fact.
The problem with abortion is people are criminalizing it for no reason other than to be jackasses and force birth.
It’s a simple answer to you and your “using it as birth control” all men have to have to have vasectomies.
Here’s a very simple fact- birth control isn’t 100% nor is condoms.
The “people using abortion as birth control” is the most used shit.
ElephantStomp
Member
They should be taxed I don’t care about anything else. Your answer to my wanting churches taxed is ”think of what we could do if we weren’t taxed as much as we are”? Tax the churches just like everything else is taxed
Where the hell do you get I don’t believe in humanity?
Early Christianity was segregated for safety reasons. The liturgy in an Orthodox Church is a 2 part service. The catechism period could be 3 years or more. During that time the catechumens are not permitted communion so in the middle the reader and priest will pray for the catechumens and then tell them 3 times to depart because the 2nd part is more in depth and is really only for those baptized in the faith. My Priest didn’t do this because he thinks it is still beneficial and there is not any danger of persecution. The Churches sacraments were closely guarded way back then. I have read that some Churches still send catechumens out. They usually go help set up coffee hour for after church.
The wedding scene in The Deer Hunter is accurate.
The oldest known Christian teaching is the handbook of the Apostles to Christians and would be church leaders. Before any books of the Bible were written. The Didache specifically mentions abortion but not as healthcare. Abortion is murder, is morally repugnant and is evil. You align yourself with those that would defend slavery because it was legal and killing Jews because it was legal. There are those that still defend abominable actions because of legal gotchas. You count yourself among those.
No. At least in our church, the Sunday School classes and most small groups were always looking to add new members, so you'd get the same material if you joined. Some groups were sequential, like the Disciple Bible Studies (1, 2 & 3). Many times those groups moved in lock step, but if someone took Disciple I in another group, they could join with a different Disciple II group. I taught Experiencing God several times, always to a different group. I also taught a men's Bible study for a number of years; we were always adding/changing the group. The groups weren't just for deeper study, many were very active from a work or mission standpoint, and that really gets people involved and gets you to know fellow members better than just nodding and shaking hands during the main service.
Those two lines, from the same post, explain the liberal mindset.
ElephantStomp
Member
Yes, our mindset that wants to help all humans, i can see where you right wing people would hate that
footballer
Member
Money spent today by our government will be your grandchildren's taxes.
TerryP
Staff
It is also the most common reason for abortions.
No shit, Sherlock.
I know it's not 100%. I also know that the majority of abortions aren't due to rape, or incest. They are unwanted.
When I don't want something to happen in my life I takes measures to insure it doesn't. But here, in this case, it's different in your view?
ElephantStomp
Member
I don’t give a damn why women obtain an abortion, it‘s none of mine or anybody else’s business.It is also the most common reason for abortions.
No shit, Sherlock.
I also know that the majority of abortions aren't due to rape, or incest. They are unwanted.
When I don't want something to happen in my life I takes measures to insure it doesn't. But here, in this case, it's different in your view?
No, it’s not different, part of not wanting something is the very thing we’re talking about If you put it that way.
"Why should my tax dollars go to anything I don’t agree with."
"think of what we could do with their taxes"
I know you'd never admit it, but those two quotes in the same post distill the essence of the liberal mindset. Believing they should have the ability to control their income, but also confiscate the wealth of others for liberal purposes - not for things others might want.
The easy fix for this is to minimize taxes and let you support the causes you choose, and let others support their causes. Then everyone can limit how many of their "dollars go to anything they don't agree with".
ElephantStomp
Member
Liberal mindset- let’s use money for good and help people.
Right wing mindset- Me, me, me.
The easy fix is to tax everybody (including churches) appropriately and use that money for the betterment of Americans. Liberal purposes in your view is any social programs.
“Liberal purposes” is why many of you so called Christians are going to be sitting next to me if it’s all real. God commands you to take care of the poor and needy (Deut 15:11) , but yet every attempt to do so y’all scream “liberal liberal liberal”.
It's not just in Deuteronomy, it's throughout the Bible. Faith without works is dead. Where you miss the mark is when you believe that care of the needy can only come through government compulsion and control. You also miss the mark thinking conservatives give less to charity and care only for themselves. It's inconvenient for you to acknowledge anything else because it doesn't comport with your vitriol and sound bites.
I am taxed far more than I give to my church. That's on me. However, as a nonbeliever you can't fathom the movement of the Spirit to reach those in need. Just this morning, I heard of how many foster kids enter their new surroundings with just the clothes on their backs, and how churches provide age-appropriate care packages for them. The lady leading that effort is an absolute inspiration. And that's just the beginning. There was an event yesterday in my small town where 200 families in need of food received that from our community churches. I won't try to recall all of the ways my churches over the years have helped the homeless transition away from addictions to enjoy stable lives, how we've built homes and built out shelters, how we've sent desperately needed supplies to foreign nations. My old Sunday School class sent one ton of food and medicine to Venezuela - we took Costco by storm that day.
On the theme of Scripture, today's sermon included John the Baptist, how he was touched by the Spirit in his mother's womb, and how he leapt with joy at Mary's visit to Elizabeth. Touched by the Spirit in the womb. If you're going to bring up Scripture, read about the emotions expressed by unborn children, then tell me it's okay to have a million babies killed a year. Some say conservatives' care for their fellow man ends at their birth, and others say that liberals' concern for others doesn't begin until after birth. They are both wrong to do so.
ElephantStomp
Member
Here’s a novel idea- take time to know somebody before you start talking out of your damn ass about them.
Let’s start here with all that you said- I never said it can only come from the government (I assume you can read). Part of the government’s responsibilities is taking care of the citizens of this country and that sir is where the right fails miserably, whether righties like you recognize that or not they do. You can go state by state or federally either way the right fails miserably.
“As a nonbeliever you can’t fathom” see this sir is where taking the time to know somebody before talking out of your damn ass about them or making dumbass comments about them. But, just to help you get to know me, so then you can make your dumbass comments about me I used to be a believer, used to go to church, read the Bible constantly, even felt “called to the pulpit”, so when I am talking about the church I’m not pulling shit out of my ass, I experienced the church.
Except there isn’t a million ”babies” killed every year, a clump of cells yes, but not babies. Also, in your elegant “million babies killed” drivel included in those numbers is ones where the pregnancy wasn’t viable. So spare me your silly “million babies killed”.
As for your “some say conservatives don‘t care about people after their birth” I don’t know about that, but what I do know is the Republican Party consistently cuts social programs that help kids, They consistently show that many things mean more to them than kids, so that’s what leads to many saying that.
As for your “liberals concern for others doesn’t begin until after birth” that could be true to some degree, but liberals have consistently shown concern for people prior to birth, more money for Medicaid, which helps the underserved and underprivileged and pregnant mothers.
= buying votes…..
Not supposed to baby sit citizens, or paying them off, supposed to protect our borders.
They have $0 for infrastructure which is what they should be doing.
Fact is any “lifetime politician” is a criminal, and anyone that votes for one is complicit or just that stupid. Dem or rep or ind or any of them.
They should not be involved in our day to day lives at all.
Nothing I said was about you personally, but your generalizations of and angst toward those different from you . Now that you've made it about you, I'll say I'm very sad you turned from the faith you'd invested so much in, and you're no longer a believer. You may have spent time studying the faith, but I question if you'd actually experienced it if you'd still be there. Perhaps you've focused your rage and rejection on the flawed people in the church and not the person of Jesus Christ. I'll let you address that in your next caustic response.
I can read, but I'm still working to refine my skills. The Constitutional question of whether, in "promote the general welfare", there is a right to housing, to income, to privacy and to many other things divined beyond the plain language of the framers. 150 years into the nation's life, you have social safety nets being established as supplements - not full pensions - and another thirty years you have medical backstops that are now an assumed right. There is no way forward to pay for everything promised in the income and health care equation. You can't tax enough to make it solvent. You can only take away from some, and that's a temporary salve.
My number is voluntary abortions, not nonviable. If you want to quibble if the number should be 700,000 or 500,000, or one, it doesn't change the position.
ElephantStomp
Member
I’ve got zero rage towards Jesus the person, he’s done nothing to me.
I know you’re the expert, but there is a way forward to pay for some of the social programs, I’m not talking about income, we can definitely pay for Medicaid, food stamps, and mental health for sure without ”taking away from some”. You’re taking the hard left (Bernie, AOC) and putting all of that onto what I’m saying. ”Medical backstops”- women’s healthcare isn’t some stupid “backstop”.
I’m not trying to change your position, I’m purely debating, not attempting to change anybody’s position or mind
It's not that Jesus has done nothing to you, it's what he's done for you.
Of course there is a way forward to pay for some of the social programs, just not all that have exploded over the last several decades. I'm saying that Social Security (the "right to income") was never intended - and will never work - as a sole means of retirement income. The Medicaid façade that has obscured ACA costs (the "right to health insurance"), combined with Social Security and Medicare, is now almost half of annual Federal expenditures. Food stamp expenditures have tripled since 2010 despite no change in poverty levels. Cell phones paid for millions of Americans (the "right to cell phones") costs the government almost a billion a year. A similar program for internet access, including providing broadband and laptops, is absolutely exploding. The overall National Debt - as a percentage of GDP - has tripled since 2010. Pandemic payments through PPP and EIDL were largely fraudulent, and most will never be prosecuted. Pandemic transfers to states and cities were ploys to prop up unsustainable social programs, and that has bloated our National Debt, just in time for the financing of the Debt to vault due to higher interest rates.
So, when I say "You can't tax enough to make it solvent. You can only take away from some, and that's a temporary salve.", I mean everyone will not get what Social Security promises them. There will be means testing in our lifetimes, such that if my overall retirement income or savings is above a certain level, I won't get the amount that has equated to my lifetime of contributions. It will be just like any other tax, not a "contract between generations" as Democrats used to describe it. It'll either be the way Medicare Part B is now; your monthly premiums can range from $160 a month to over $560 a month based upon your income. Or, you'll just get less in Social Security than you were promised based on your lifetime contributions. And once that happens, because it's no longer linked to benefit amounts, they'll phase out the maximum income limits where SS taxes end and tax all income, just like they already do with Medicare taxes.
Medicare Part D (Bush) and ACA (Obama), combined with pandemic payments (Trump and Biden), have put us on a path to ruin. There are still pandemic monies that haven't been spent, and politicians are scheming to reallocate them, just as they did with bank TARP repayments during the Great Recession. It's absolutely despicable.