🏈 Just some food for thought on this Okie State debate

[Cowboys_4Ever]

Too bad yall couldnt run up some points on that Iowa State Powerhouse................:nana:

Lol Southern Bama, that's pretty good. :nutkick:

Iowa State was obviously not our proudest moment of the season, but it also doesn't overrule all the other things we've done this year. The season isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. We definitely had a much tougher road to travel, and (Iowa State aside) we did exactly that in dominating fashion.

 

[BamaCore]

It's not spin, it's just facts. Playing in the mighty SEC is not a prerequisite for being a championship-caliber team. I'm tired of hearing about how the SEC has "shut down" the Big 12 in the past. For one thing, the college football scene changes drastically every year, what's been done in the past is irrelevant. Live in the present. Plus, are you really going to pound your chest for "shutting down" Texas' offense in the 2009 BCS Championship, a game where Colt McCoy got hurt and left in the first quarter? Don't hide behind your golden years/achievements. It comes down to this year, a year in which OSU won the Big 12, otherwise known as the highest ranked conference in College football THIS year.

Oh please. Facts? What facts? Nothing you've said has been supported by anything but homeristic speculation. All your doing is trying to justify throwing anything out that even slightly goes against your argument, which is laughable. Also, for one, I didn't realize Colt McCoy played defense. We seemed to okay against that defense don't you think? Florida versus Oklahoma? Psshhh. I do however love that in one sentence you chastise me for bringing up the past, and then start crying foul about Colt McCoy. Bottom line: your offense wasn't enough to overcome Iowa State. Get over it.

 

[ElephantStomp]

I'm not a SEC fan, I'm an Alabama fan, but I don't care how a person looks at it tjere is no way a "vaunted" offense from the Big 12 would have the same offensive numbers against a SEC team as they do in the Big 12

 

[Cowboys_4Ever]

From what I've seen of Big12 vs. SEC teams in the past, the terrible defenses in the Big12 make the offenses look better than they actually are. Don't get me wrong, I highly respect what OSU has done on offense, and believe they probably have the best offense in the country. I just think that a great defense will beat a great offense at least 85% of the time.

As a true fan of football in general, I will 100% agree with you that great defenses do win games. I also believe OSU's D is much better than most people think. We have a style of "bend-but-don't-break" D that is amazingly frustrating to watch (take my word on it), but that is also very effective at keeping teams out of the end zone. Plus we do an awesome job of creating turnovers. Great example is OSU vs. Baylor. Final score was 59-24, but Baylor actually had more yards than we did (622 to 601). Difference was we forced 5 turnovers and kept them (mostly) out of the endzone. No, 622 yards is not mark of a dominating D, but translating those 622 yards into only 24 points is impressive. And not a fluke, because we've done the exact same thing all year. Oklahoma? 358 yards. Points? 10

 

[planomateo]

Lol Southern Bama, that's pretty good. :nutkick:

Iowa State was obviously not our proudest moment of the season, but it also doesn't overrule all the other things we've done this year. The season isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. We definitely had a much tougher road to travel, and (Iowa State aside) we did exactly that in dominating fashion.

cowboys had a great season, I don't think anyone would argue that. sucks that both Bama and OSU let the voters decide.

arguing your case here is kinda pointless in my opinion. as I said earlier, if we lost to Vandy this year, you'd never hear me (and I would certainly hope no other Bama fans would try to justify this loss) to get us into the MNC game...

good luck in your bowl game.

 

[Cowboys_4Ever]

cowboys had a great season, I don't think anyone would argue that. sucks that both Bama and OSU let the voters decide.

arguing your case here is kinda pointless in my opinion. as I said earlier, if we lost to Vandy this year, you'd never hear me (and I would certainly hope no other Bama fans would try to justify this loss) to get us into the MNC game...

good luck in your bowl game.

Appreciate it. Good luck in yours as well. Maybe one year we can finally turn the other non-title BCS bowls into a playoff system leading up to the Championship game. Until then it is what it is.

 

[Southern Bama]

Appreciate it. Good luck in yours as well. Maybe one year we can finally turn the other non-title BCS bowls into a playoff system leading up to the Championship game. Until then it is what it is.

And tell Gundy to keep his grubby hands off Barry Sanders Jr......we want that young man here in T-Town....:fight::lol:

 

[RollllTide!]

Appreciate it. Good luck in yours as well. Maybe one year we can finally turn the other non-title BCS bowls into a playoff system leading up to the Championship game. Until then it is what it is.

You guys had a great year. I especially enjoyed your win over Bob Stoooops. He is the big 12 version of our ole ball coach Spurrier. I was ROTFL during that game. Really if you look at your season week by week the BCS points you guys gained or did not gain was the culprit. Your last win was fantastic, but that doesn't make a season based on the BCS computation. It is cumulative until the season is over. Your one loss didn't cause that much of a point drop either. It was the points lost and gained for the whole season. You have to man up. We had to for almost 10 years.

 

[foshman]

I've heard all this whining from the Okie St. side about how they've played more ranked teams and that they are more deserving. Let's set the record straight on a few things. First, however, let's keep in mind that the Big 12 had no championship game this year, so they scheduled some games during championship game week to appear still relevant. If OK. St. had beaten Oklahoma the last week of the regular season - the same weekend we beat the snot out of Auburn - we wouldn't be having a debate. So starting with the fact that both teams are 11-1, let's consider some other relevant facts.

On ranked teams - I've heard numerous OSU fans whine how they've played more ranked teams. The facts:
- Current BCS ranked teams: OSU - 4; Bama - 4
- Teams ranked in top 25 at the time of the game during regular season: OSU - 4; Bama - 5

On Bowl Teams - Perhaps more indicative is looking at opponents playing in bowl games - REAL bowl games; not joke bowl games. So, looking at significant bowl games (those played on or after New Year's Eve) in which regular season opponents appear:
- OSU - 2
- Bama - 6

Team Defense and Team Offense Stats - in looking at "deserving" let's see how the teams rank overall in the main offensive and defensive categories to see who is really most deserving:

Total Defense - this is obviously a Bama strength, but let's see just how big the Bama-OSU gap is
- Bama - 1
- OSU - 107(!!)
- LSU (2)
Total gap between Bama and OSU - 106(!!) OSU is not even in the top 100 in total defense. Are you kidding?

Total Offense - this is obviously an OSU strength, but let's look at that gap
- OSU - 3
- Bama - 30
- LSU - 70
Total gap between Bama and OSU - 27

If we look at scoring defense and scoring offense, OSU catches up a bit on the defense side, BUT we catch up even more on the offense side.

Scoring Defense
- Bama -1
- OSU - 61
- LSU - 2
Total gap between Bama and OSU - 60. OSU is not as bad here but still not even in the top 50 in scoring defense

Scoring Offense
- OSU - 2
- Bama - 18
- LSU - 13
Total gap between Bama and OSU - 16. Even in their highest ranking category, the gap is only 16 places.

If you take all the whining and emotion out of the debate. Is it really even close? Maybe people don't like a re-match, but the system is currently set up to pit the best two teams against each other. Looks like the system worked.

PS - Oh, and by the way, they just release the Coach's All-America team. Interested in how many players each school has on there?
Bama - 5
OSU - 3
LSU - 1

I have 3 points to the overall original post.

1. Who cares. Alabama got into the game because of the way they beat 10 quality opponents (and Georgia State.) In this case the more subjective human polls out weighed the more objective computer polls. It's legitimate and Alabama has nothing to apologize for.

2. As for the schedules there really is very little reason to try to compare them. The computers used by the BCS do that far better than an individual can without taking MOV into account.

3. Your bowl game comparison is flawed. Several of the bowls you dismiss as being not real (the Alamo Bowl) are considered better bowls than some of the bowls that fall on later dates that you include (the Liberty Bowl.) People from the southeast don't care about them because they don't involve SEC teams. They do have higher payouts and usually higher TV ratings than many of the games that come later as they were established (or moved) in order to be the only college football games on.

 

['65 Cobra]

No way you can even compare the defensive numbers of a team who doesn't play anybody that has an offense with a team who plays in the Big 12. Guarantee if Alabama was in the Big 12 they would see a drastic change in yards/points allowed. Would Alabama be the best defense in the Big 12? Sure, probably, but they would also have the worst offense.

As for offensive stats, I must say I'm impressed you were able to score big points on powerhouse teams like Kent State, North Texas, and Georgia Southern. Almost as impressed as I am with Georgia Southern scoring 21 points on your vaunted D

Indeed, almost as impressive your stunning victory over Big 12 powerhouse Kansas (0-9, 2-10), PAC 12 juggernaut Arizona (2-7, 4-8), and Sunbelt Conference super-giant, Louisiana Lafayette who scored 34 on you.

 

[planomateo]

any one notice Oklahoma State had 2 BYE weeks this year?

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

any one notice Oklahoma State had 2 BYE weeks this year?

Humph!! I didn't, that is interesting.

 

[BamaJim]

Don't forget the common opponent comparison:

OSU beat TAMU by 1
Arky beat TAMU by 4
LSU beat Arky by 24
Bama beat Arky by 24

Arky has a good offense and not so good defense. They were shut down by tremendous defenses. Scored 42 on TAMU. OSU only scored 30 on TAMU. (they did give up 9 points more than OSU did to TAMU). Both Bama and LSU scored as well or better against Arky as TAMU did. This is the closest comparison I think you'll find in 2011, and Bama and LSU come out way ahead.

When you throw the ball around the way the Big 12 does, there is bound to be opportunities to pick off a few now and then. Just imagine how opportunistic our defense would be week in and week out in the Big 12. Our D would probably have more points than our offense. That is something that the Big 12, gaudy-offense-loving, fan-base will never understand. Big 12 offenses look really good and really fast until they play a team that actually recruits defensive players (aka the SEC).

I don't care how much bend-but-don't-break defense OSU plays, the numbers above demonstrate how far off the mark their proponents really are when comparing SEC vs Big 12.

Roll Tide!

 

[planomateo]

I'm not trying to justify us being there first off.

I've seen a few posts elsewhere talking about avg margin of victory, so I decided to validate it on my own, interesting that the #2 offense in the nation in a conf with zero defense couldn't score more on avg against a team like Bama against a conf that prides itself on being defensive.

 

['65 Cobra]

I'm not trying to justify us being there first off.

I've seen a few posts elsewhere talking about avg margin of victory, so I decided to validate it on my own, interesting that the #2 offense in the nation in a conf with zero defense couldn't score more on avg against a team like Bama against a conf that prides itself on being defensive.

Excellent info. Well done.

 

[BamaFan615]

Lol Southern Bama, that's pretty good. :nutkick:

Iowa State was obviously not our proudest moment of the season, but it also doesn't overrule all the other things we've done this year. The season isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. We definitely had a much tougher road to travel, and (Iowa State aside) we did exactly that in dominating fashion.

"it's not a sprint it's a marathon"...so, explain to me how exactly this makes Okie State the #2 team, when they lost to an unranked team, and BAMA lost (in overtime by 3 points) to the #1 ranked team.

It doesn't match up. I'd like to point out that one of your "great wins" was done to a Kansas State team that beat Eastern Kentucky (powerhouse, 'nuf said(3 points)), Miami (yes, the 2011 version), and Baylor (yes, RG3 is a damn good player, but they lost 3, yes, 3 times) by a combined 8 points. 8 points!!!....Seriously...a good win!?!?!?

Yes, Kansas State is such a powerhouse. But I would also like to point out the fact that Kansas State also won by a TD or less to (unranked) Missouri, (unranked) Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Texas, and Iowa State. Hmmmm, they're a good team??

And, I would like to point out the fact that this "powerhouse" of Kansas State is an 8 point underdog to Arkansas.

Also, Okie State beat Texas A&M by 1 points. Arky beat Texas A&M by a similar margin. Wait, wasn't Arkansas in the SEC Western Division?? Oh yea, both BAMA and LSU SPANKED Arky...hmmmm....do the math here, and you'll figure it out.

It's pretty simple, just use logic. I understand that you're upset that Okie State had their best season ever....and they still don't match-up against us, but it's alright....just get used to it, we're just better than you all..and always will be.

Sucks for ya.

 

[BamaFan615]

Okie State's "Great wins":

1) Texas A&M - Not ranked - Finished 6-6 - Lost to Arkansas (SEC West)
2) Texas - Finished 7-5 including a loss to Missouri....and barely beating BYU (didn't they almost lose to Ole Miss?!?!?!)
3) Kansas State (see above)
4) Oklahoma (a team headed to the Insight Bowl....where is that again!?!?!?)

Yup, sounds like a great resume. Sucks, you're still not BAMA, and never will be. Barry Sanders isn't walking through that door.

And yes, Mike Gundy IS a MAN! What a coach.

 

[srollins]

I've been reading that instead of comparing losses, Alabama and OSU should compare wins. These people say that OSU's wins are better than Bama's wins.

I say that Alabama's LOSS to LSU is better than OSU's best win.

 

[Cowboys_4Ever]

"it's not a sprint it's a marathon"...so, explain to me how exactly this makes Okie State the #2 team, when they lost to an unranked team, and BAMA lost (in overtime by 3 points) to the #1 ranked team.

It doesn't match up. I'd like to point out that one of your "great wins" was done to a Kansas State team that beat Eastern Kentucky (powerhouse, 'nuf said(3 points)), Miami (yes, the 2011 version), and Baylor (yes, RG3 is a damn good player, but they lost 3, yes, 3 times) by a combined 8 points. 8 points!!!....Seriously...a good win!?!?!?

Yes, Kansas State is such a powerhouse. But I would also like to point out the fact that Kansas State also won by a TD or less to (unranked) Missouri, (unranked) Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Texas, and Iowa State. Hmmmm, they're a good team??

And, I would like to point out the fact that this "powerhouse" of Kansas State is an 8 point underdog to Arkansas.

Also, Okie State beat Texas A&M by 1 points. Arky beat Texas A&M by a similar margin. Wait, wasn't Arkansas in the SEC Western Division?? Oh yea, both BAMA and LSU SPANKED Arky...hmmmm....do the math here, and you'll figure it out.

It's pretty simple, just use logic. I understand that you're upset that Okie State had their best season ever....and they still don't match-up against us, but it's alright....just get used to it, we're just better than you all..and always will be.

Sucks for ya.

Easy BamaFan615, take a chill pill and unwad your panties. Nobody is claiming that Kansas State is a "powerhouse." You can take different numbers and statistics and twist them around to say whatever you want, but in the end it's pretty simple.

The BCS ranks the Big 12 as the toughest conference, ahead of the SEC. Oklahoma State went 11-1 and won the Big 12. Alabama, (who also went 11-1), failed to even win their own division, much less the SEC. Add to the fact that they've already lost AT HOME to the other team playing in the championship game, and it quickly becomes clear that Oklahoma State should be playing in the national championship game. In addition to all of that, the before-mentioned "other team" in the championship game is also in the SEC, which means a conference that isn't even ranked number 1 has both teams in the national championship.

 

[Cowboys_4Ever]

I've been reading that instead of comparing losses, Alabama and OSU should compare wins. These people say that OSU's wins are better than Bama's wins.

I say that Alabama's LOSS to LSU is better than OSU's best win.

Anybody who points to a loss as the highlight of their season probably should take a minute to realize how truly pathetic that is. "We haven't really beaten anybody, but we DID lose to this one great team!!!"