🏈 Hurts, Bateman, Barnett and the QB competition

[TerryP]

I've had six reported posts in this thread. I've ignored all of them.

I get notifications on my phone about these just to keep up, right? At six, it's starting to get on my nerves.

 

[JoshB]

Five of them were probably my posts :rolf:

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Five of them were probably my posts :rolf:

You have competition...

 

[TUSKtimes]

He's not trolling me. I know exactly what's going on. We're depending on a true freshman QB to win us a championship this season. Now whether or not he wants to admit that, or no comment, or continue to split his reps, or play 2 QBs against Ole Miss again, etc is up to him.

If it were me, I'd have Jalen getting all the first team reps in practice, the qb competition would be closed for the season, and he'd get every single snap against Western Kentucky until at least the 4th quarter. He needs all of the experience we can possibly give him at this point. We've got a really tough game in Oxford coming up

Put Jalen in. Let Jalen play. Score Jalen score. See you tomorrow.

 

[Rolltide24]

That score was definitely not indicative of the QB play Saturday. We have a ways to go with any of the QBs, in my opinion. Hurts looked pretty good, especially for a true freshman. His running ability will be very important to his and our success. But our passing game was nothing to write home about. Maybe my bar is too high... All but 10 of Hurts' passing yards came on 2 passes, one a complete blown coverage (but he did a great job recognizing it), and one where Stewart burned his buy and Hurts crow hopped it 50 yards and still underthrew him (again great recognition). Barnett completed all his passes and made the one good toss also to a wide open Deiter. Batemen attempted and completed the 1 pass, so no real sample there. We had 11 drives of 3 or 4 plays (but scored TD's on 5 of those 11). Only 4 drives of 6 or more plays resulting in 10 total points. Sustained drives were hard to come by, but we didn't need them. Ole Miss will make us earn the first downs and scores in 2 weeks so this week will be critical to find out more of what we have at the QB position, even though it's Western Kentucky. I am one who believes the starting slot is still open.

 

[ComeOnSon]

That score was definitely not indicative of the QB play Saturday. We have a ways to go with any of the QBs, in my opinion. Hurts looked pretty good, especially for a true freshman. His running ability will be very important to his and our success. But our passing game was nothing to write home about. Maybe my bar is too high... All but 10 of Hurts' passing yards came on 2 passes, one a complete blown coverage (but he did a great job recognizing it), and one where Stewart burned his buy and Hurts crow hopped it 50 yards and still underthrew him (again great recognition). Barnett completed all his passes and made the one good toss also to a wide open Deiter. Batemen attempted and completed the 1 pass, so no real sample there. We had 11 drives of 3 or 4 plays (but scored TD's on 5 of those 11). Only 4 drives of 6 or more plays resulting in 10 total points. Sustained drives were hard to come by, but we didn't need them. Ole Miss will make us earn the first downs and scores in 2 weeks so this week will be critical to find out more of what we have at the QB position, even though it's Western Kentucky. I am one who believes the starting slot is still open.

Had another good throw to OJ over the middle. They had decent coverage on that one.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

He's not trolling me. I know exactly what's going on. We're depending on a true freshman QB to win us a championship this season. Now whether or not he wants to admit that, or no comment, or continue to split his reps, or play 2 QBs against Ole Miss again, etc is up to him.

If it were me, I'd have Jalen getting all the first team reps in practice, the qb competition would be closed for the season, and he'd get every single snap against Western Kentucky until at least the 4th quarter. He needs all of the experience we can possibly give him at this point. We've got a really tough game in Oxford coming up

Well, that makes one of us who knows exactly what's going on. I can see Hurts' incredible ability to evade penetration and be an effective runner, but his passing isn't to a point where I would say the QB competition should be over, or that we shouldn't be seriously developing Barnett (incredible that anyone believes the staff can't develop two QBs at a time). I think the performances by Hurts and Barnett deserve a little analysis. Hurts' two TD passes were with broken coverage and a receiver who got behind coverage because one DB mistakenly believed Stewart to be ineligible after being forced out of bounds. Hurts didn't attempt another pass after the poor read on the interception, ending the day 6 for 11 with one INT and one fumble. The catch and run by Ardarius on the busted coverage (71 yards) and the one after he was forced out of bounds (39 yards) accounted for all but 8 yards of Hurts' total - the other four completions netted eight yards. Barnett's two long throws showed an ability to look off a safety and put the ball over the top. With a 5 for 6 passing day, by no means is Barnett a lost cause. One sack was from holding the ball too long (after last year, we should all know what that looks like) and the other a line bust.

In terms of those who've said Barnett was too nervous or in over his head and was only effective when the game wasn't in question, let's look at the drive chart. The first two possessions with Barnett were ineffective. The next three possessions were ineffective with Hurts. It was only in Bama's sixth possession did we score. Hurts didn't come in and provide an immediate spark. Bama continued with its running and short passing strategy to determine defensive calls and identify weaknesses.

I will say this. I think our O line is better than it was two years ago. However, if it's not, and if the O line can't protect the passer or establish the run in the same way, we have no choice but to play Hurts so he can compensate with his scrambling in a manner similar to Sims.

RTR,

Tim

 

[bamaledge]

Totally agree with the above, hence my thread titled " Great game".

 

[ColAngus]

Well, that makes one of us who knows exactly what's going on. I can see Hurts' incredible ability to evade penetration and be an effective runner, but his passing isn't to a point where I would say the QB competition should be over, or that we shouldn't be seriously developing Barnett (incredible that anyone believes the staff can't develop two QBs at a time). I think the performances by Hurts and Barnett deserve a little analysis. Hurts' two TD passes were with broken coverage and a receiver who got behind coverage because one DB mistakenly believed Stewart to be ineligible after being forced out of bounds. Hurts didn't attempt another pass after the poor read on the interception, ending the day 6 for 11 with one INT and one fumble. The catch and run by Ardarius on the busted coverage (71 yards) and the one after he was forced out of bounds (39 yards) accounted for all but 8 yards of Hurts' total - the other four completions netted eight yards. Barnett's two long throws showed an ability to look off a safety and put the ball over the top. With a 5 for 6 passing day, by no means is Barnett a lost cause. One sack was from holding the ball too long (after last year, we should all know what that looks like) and the other a line bust.

In terms of those who've said Barnett was too nervous or in over his head and was only effective when the game wasn't in question, let's look at the drive chart. The first two possessions with Barnett were ineffective. The next three possessions were ineffective with Hurts. It was only in Bama's sixth possession did we score. Hurts didn't come in and provide an immediate spark. Bama continued with its running and short passing strategy to determine defensive calls and identify weaknesses.

I will say this. I think our O line is better than it was two years ago. However, if it's not, and if the O line can't protect the passer or establish the run in the same way, we have no choice but to play Hurts so he can compensate with his scrambling in a manner similar to Sims.

RTR,

Tim

Great analysis. I have to believe the staff sees it the same way.

Great spot to be in. We have two very good, and very different, quarterbacks.

 

[TUSKtimes]

Lots of good observations on the game eleven. I though Bozeman and Cotton was looking good popping Harris on some long runs down the field. Shank is going to get his opportunity and if we need to remix our chemistry on the line it's another good option, but they all look like solid players.

 

[TerryP]

Great spot to be in. We have two very good, and very different, quarterbacks.

:clap:

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Great analysis. I have to believe the staff sees it the same way.

Great spot to be in. We have two very good, and very different, quarterbacks.

Thanks, Anal (it is okay if I call you by your given name, isn't it?).

Although it ended harshly and I was angry, the passage of time allows me a more calm analysis of Fran's use of Watts and Zow. Watts is the only Bama QB since Coach Bryant to rush for 100 yards - and he did it three times - while Zow was amassing what was at that time the career passing mark at Bama. Fran's staff was very good at taking advantage of what an opponent would yield, sometimes in dramatically different fashions from week to week. What I will never forget, or forgive, is they way Fran mailed in the last aubrun game.

 

[Destiny's Child]

Well, that makes one of us who knows exactly what's going on. I can see Hurts' incredible ability to evade penetration and be an effective runner, but his passing isn't to a point where I would say the QB competition should be over, or that we shouldn't be seriously developing Barnett (incredible that anyone believes the staff can't develop two QBs at a time). I think the performances by Hurts and Barnett deserve a little analysis. Hurts' two TD passes were with broken coverage and a receiver who got behind coverage because one DB mistakenly believed Stewart to be ineligible after being forced out of bounds. Hurts didn't attempt another pass after the poor read on the interception, ending the day 6 for 11 with one INT and one fumble. The catch and run by Ardarius on the busted coverage (71 yards) and the one after he was forced out of bounds (39 yards) accounted for all but 8 yards of Hurts' total - the other four completions netted eight yards. Barnett's two long throws showed an ability to look off a safety and put the ball over the top. With a 5 for 6 passing day, by no means is Barnett a lost cause. One sack was from holding the ball too long (after last year, we should all know what that looks like) and the other a line bust.

In terms of those who've said Barnett was too nervous or in over his head and was only effective when the game wasn't in question, let's look at the drive chart. The first two possessions with Barnett were ineffective. The next three possessions were ineffective with Hurts. It was only in Bama's sixth possession did we score. Hurts didn't come in and provide an immediate spark. Bama continued with its running and short passing strategy to determine defensive calls and identify weaknesses.

I will say this. I think our O line is better than it was two years ago. However, if it's not, and if the O line can't protect the passer or establish the run in the same way, we have no choice but to play Hurts so he can compensate with his scrambling in a manner similar to Sims.

RTR,

Tim

I agree Tim. Both guys looked good at times and very confused at times. Those first few series were hard to watch but for all the people crying to start a freshman so we can have a "quarterback for the future" this is what you have to live with. Jeckle & Hyde!

I thought Barnett looked good throwing the ball late and I thought Hurt even though he turned it over twice looked very comfortable and confident. The fumbled zone read was as much on the rb as hurts but he may have waited a little too long to pull it.. at some point the rb has to secure it. The interception was a teachable moment he needs to either throw that away or take off running and get what you can (bad decision). Barnett actually fumbled that ball on the sack and we are lucky that they didn't review it.. not that it would have mattered in the end but he got away with one there. Barnett did look like he was hearing the footsteps a little bit but he did appear to be the better thrower.

I think we will continue to play both for another week but let's face it whichever one helps our running game be more effective needs to get the call and there is two ways to look at it.

1) Hurts is a good runner, has a strong arm to get it down field some but isn't very accomplished at the more advanced passing game yet. His ability to keep the ball on zone reads and beat teams over the top could really help the rb's get some space.

2) Barnett, if he is able to maintain his composure and be accurate throwing the ball around then it pulls safeties and LB out into coverage which will help the RB's get loose.

With as good as the defense looks right now if we can be an effective running team we will control each game we play. These long TD passes are fun but "live by the sword, die by the sword". To be consistent and dominate we need to be able to run the ball and enforce our will on teams. Our D is gonna keep us in every game as long as we don't turn it over and can control the ball.

 

[riz]

Was this resolved?

 

[Alabama17Tide]

I cannot vouch for any of this. Posted in a Tidesports.com forum so take it with a grain of salt:

These are things that have been brewing since the spring. As a lot of you may know, Jalen Hurts has shaken up our QB situation and here are the ripple effects I've been hearing over the past few months. Things have really heated up this last month.

Blake has been under a tremendous amount of pressure for a guy not even 21 yet. His dad, Lance has been on him and the coaches about Blake getting what he "deserves". He feels pressure to perform also because he now has a fiance. Both his dad and fiance have been on him to transfer if he isn't the clear cut starter by the bowl game. He wants to be close to his fiance and she wants him to as well. His dad is the typical little league over bearing dad and has told him and coaches he's gone. Big reason for the pressing and nervousness. You have to feel for the kid a little. The coaches are giving him (or making it seem like) every chance to win it. However, the way things have been wouldn't be shocked if he narrows the long distance relationship. I hope she hasn't given the kid an ultimatum ( probably has). Coaches deal with parents every day but BB has been on another level from what I've heard. Been told if he's not the clear cut starter by December/bowl game he gone.


Cornwell has decided his future is in coaching. He wants ro be like Nick and Kiff, he graduates in Dec and has indicated he wants to hang it up and become a GA on the staff. He could change his mind but today he wants to get started coaching. Tired of the injuries. You can tell on the sidelines he's into it.

Bateman has always been content being a back up QB and getting all the perks of being an Alabama QB. He will stick around and be the backup more than likely for 2017.

Don't worry about Tua and Jones. They have already been sold on redshirting and developing. Plus, we will be able to get the best QBs because of how sharp we'll be at the position.

Just wanted to share this info as I always do. Passing it along. Don't shoot the messenger. I love the tide and love sharing that behind the scenes info with those who do as well.

 

[bama alum]

Cornwell has decided his future is in coaching. He wants ro be like Nick and Kiff, he graduates in Dec and has indicated he wants to hang it up and become a GA on the staff. He could change his mind but today he wants to get started coaching. Tired of the injuries. You can tell on the sidelines he's into it.

Yeah, I saw his body language on the sideline Saturday, which was a lot different than the pics from fall camp. But...graduating? Already? The kid's a redshirt sophomore.

 

[TUSKtimes]

All the above is probably true to some degree and not much there that should be foreign to those who follow Alabama football. The absolute most important responsibility Bama has is to find the best starting QB. Not the backup. That will be the guy not good enough to beat out the starter. If anyone leaves during or after the process, that has to be a non-issue. Coach Saban was trying to reason with our DBs and a WR and I'm sure many more we never hear about concerning patience and getting better. Some listen and some leave. Once choices are made, it's a non-issue, next up.

We have two QBs coming in next season that are considered difference makers as well. We have running backs and receivers and so much more coming in on the next recruiting cycle that wouldn't surprise anyone if we see them on the field in game one. When they get here, here we go, and the rest will be a non-issue.

 

[UAgrad93]

I cannot vouch for any of this. Posted in a Tidesports.com forum so take it with a grain of salt:

These are things that have been brewing since the spring. As a lot of you may know, Jalen Hurts has shaken up our QB situation and here are the ripple effects I've been hearing over the past few months. Things have really heated up this last month.

Blake has been under a tremendous amount of pressure for a guy not even 21 yet. His dad, Lance has been on him and the coaches about Blake getting what he "deserves". He feels pressure to perform also because he now has a fiance. Both his dad and fiance have been on him to transfer if he isn't the clear cut starter by the bowl game. He wants to be close to his fiance and she wants him to as well. His dad is the typical little league over bearing dad and has told him and coaches he's gone. Big reason for the pressing and nervousness. You have to feel for the kid a little. The coaches are giving him (or making it seem like) every chance to win it. However, the way things have been wouldn't be shocked if he narrows the long distance relationship. I hope she hasn't given the kid an ultimatum ( probably has). Coaches deal with parents every day but BB has been on another level from what I've heard. Been told if he's not the clear cut starter by December/bowl game he gone.


Cornwell has decided his future is in coaching. He wants ro be like Nick and Kiff, he graduates in Dec and has indicated he wants to hang it up and become a GA on the staff. He could change his mind but today he wants to get started coaching. Tired of the injuries. You can tell on the sidelines he's into it.

Bateman has always been content being a back up QB and getting all the perks of being an Alabama QB. He will stick around and be the backup more than likely for 2017.

Don't worry about Tua and Jones. They have already been sold on redshirting and developing. Plus, we will be able to get the best QBs because of how sharp we'll be at the position.

Just wanted to share this info as I always do. Passing it along. Don't shoot the messenger. I love the tide and love sharing that behind the scenes info with those who do as well.

This does make A LOT of sense to be honest with you. The QB position is probably the hardest one to play. You can't have 2 or more on the field at one time,UNLESS YOU ARE THE BARN! One gets to play while the others sit. While the kids are sometimes content to wait, like Bateman, others have parents that want to try and live vicariously through them. As an old coach, I saw it all of the time and have seen it in the rec leagues as well. Like Cornwell, I saw the writing on the wall as a walk on QB and I chose to make a degree change so that I could coach. It is a great profession but often a thankless one.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

Well, that makes one of us who knows exactly what's going on. I can see Hurts' incredible ability to evade penetration and be an effective runner, but his passing isn't to a point where I would say the QB competition should be over, or that we shouldn't be seriously developing Barnett (incredible that anyone believes the staff can't develop two QBs at a time). I think the performances by Hurts and Barnett deserve a little analysis. Hurts' two TD passes were with broken coverage and a receiver who got behind coverage because one DB mistakenly believed Stewart to be ineligible after being forced out of bounds. Hurts didn't attempt another pass after the poor read on the interception, ending the day 6 for 11 with one INT and one fumble. The catch and run by Ardarius on the busted coverage (71 yards) and the one after he was forced out of bounds (39 yards) accounted for all but 8 yards of Hurts' total - the other four completions netted eight yards. Barnett's two long throws showed an ability to look off a safety and put the ball over the top. With a 5 for 6 passing day, by no means is Barnett a lost cause. One sack was from holding the ball too long (after last year, we should all know what that looks like) and the other a line bust.

In terms of those who've said Barnett was too nervous or in over his head and was only effective when the game wasn't in question, let's look at the drive chart. The first two possessions with Barnett were ineffective. The next three possessions were ineffective with Hurts. It was only in Bama's sixth possession did we score. Hurts didn't come in and provide an immediate spark. Bama continued with its running and short passing strategy to determine defensive calls and identify weaknesses.

I will say this. I think our O line is better than it was two years ago. However, if it's not, and if the O line can't protect the passer or establish the run in the same way, we have no choice but to play Hurts so he can compensate with his scrambling in a manner similar to Sims.

RTR,

Tim

Taking away the first drive and giving credit to freshman jitters, Jalen actually did MOVE the offense his 1st couple drives. Even though those 1st 2 drives ended in punts.

Barnett might be the better passer by a slight margin, but his poise and leadership ability appears to pale in comparison to Jalen's.

That is why Saban will go with Hurts for the start and majority of snaps from here on out. Because he's looking for someone to "take the bull by the horns and lead the team". Rumblings are that Jalen has gotten the majority of the first team practice snaps this week.

 

[planomateo]

...I chose to make a degree change so that I could coach. It is a great profession but often a thankless one.

Thanks Coach