šŸˆ Condoleezza Rice has no business on the College Football Playoff committee (Kevin Scarbinsky)

The debate about whether Rice is qualified to sit on the blue ribbon panel is, in my opinion, overshadowed by the larger question concerning the wisdom of having a panel in the first place. The selection committee is a bad idea, ab initio. There will never be universal acceptance of any committee member, and the potential for regional bias, institutional bias, the formation of cabals, and the hatching of back-door deals is enormous. If anyone ever thought that a playoff system involving teams chosen by a clique of "philosopher kings" would foster fairness in the selection of a college football national champion, that person doesn't know his burro from a burrow.
 
The debate about whether Rice is qualified to sit on the blue ribbon panel is, in my opinion, overshadowed by the larger question concerning the wisdom of having a panel in the first place. The selection committee is a bad idea, ab initio. There will never be universal acceptance of any committee member, and the potential for regional bias, institutional bias, the formation of cabals, and the hatching of back-door deals is enormous. If anyone ever thought that a playoff system involving teams chosen by a clique of "philosopher kings" would foster fairness in the selection of a college football national champion, that person doesn't know his burro from a burrow.
You hit the nail on the head.
 
Cecil Hurt
TideSports.com Columnist


Over the past several days, like the shooting stars from the Draconid meteor shower, members of the new College Football Playoff selection committee have sporadically flashed into public view. First were the names of current athletic directors, one from each of the power conferences. Then came the former players, the former writer, the former diplomat.

Fascinating, yes. But is this progress?

The question is sincere. For years, people have railed against the BCS system, which had a constantly evolving formula for picking two teams to play for the championship of college football. Critics raged against that system on television and radio. Editorials were written, and books denouncing the BCS became best-sellers.

In 2011, the selection of Alabama and LSU, two Southeastern Conference teams, to the BCS title game threatened to send parts of the country into open revolt. (Oklahoma wouldn't have been missed, but open revolt isn't a good look.) People wanted change, and now change has come. But, beyond a nearly universal agreement that four teams is better than two, there is no guarantee that the new process is any better - or even as good - as the old.

First things first: The single most misunderstood aspect of the new committee is that the members need to be "football men" who can "break down film" or analyze which team "passes the look test." That ability isn't needed at all. Being "men" is not important. The minute the committee gets away from the only thing it needs to consider - results on the field - and wanders into the poppy fields of the "look test," the whole purpose is defeated.

The only thing the committee should consider is raw data - how diverse schedules compare, and who did the best against them. A group comprised of administrators, statisticians and engineers - of either gender - could do the job just as well as former quarterbacks and offensive line coaches.

Frankly, I have thought all along that the "star power" nominees - Archie Manning, Condoleezza Rice (again, not because she is female) and so on - were so much window dressing, and that a more serviceable committee could be drawn from the ranks of anonymous engineers and the nation's best collegiate math departments. That is a better safeguard against bias than the arbitrary "predictions" of "experts," no matter how steeped in football background they are.

Wait. Wouldn't that hurt the Southeastern Conference? Doesn't evaluating the SEC, the nation's best league, require some sort of sixth sense about how good the conference "really" is?

Not at all. Look at it this way: Last year, would a four-team playoff chosen by the existing BCS model have included Florida and Oregon, along with Alabama and Notre Dame? There is no way to know for sure, but do I think a committee would have included Florida over Stanford or Kansas State? No. The fact that Stanford and KSU were conference champions while the Gators and Ducks didn't make their conference championship games should not matter, unless the BCS decides to give preference to conference champions in some mathematically qualifiable way. Then, why? Because the Gators would not have done well on the look test.

I have nothing against any potential committee members. They can do the job, just as a lot of other "experts" and average citizens could. But it is important that people not lose sight of what that job is - choosing the team that did the most, not the one that "looks the best."

http://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1559433
 
The debate about whether Rice is qualified to sit on the blue ribbon panel is, in my opinion, overshadowed by the larger question concerning the wisdom of having a panel in the first place. The selection committee is a bad idea, ab initio. There will never be universal acceptance of any committee member, and the potential for regional bias, institutional bias, the formation of cabals, and the hatching of back-door deals is enormous. If anyone ever thought that a playoff system involving teams chosen by a clique of "philosopher kings" would foster fairness in the selection of a college football national champion, that person doesn't know his burro from a burrow.

It was touched on a little earlier by plano (if I'm not mistaken) that pointing to "the potential for regional bias, institutional bias, the formation of cabals, and the hatching of back-door deals is enormous" as a reason for avoiding a committee isn't a change from the norm but simply a continuation of what we've seen from the AP poll, the USA Today Coaches poll, etc. I see no argument against the half of a century evidence before us that his assertion is true. I've heard people mention the votes for Michigan from the mid-west writer at the beginning of last season as a great example.

What was done to remove this bias? Institute computer rankings. But yet again, now there are criticisms of said computer rankings despite them playing in our favor.

"Back door deals?" Again, no different. Hell, a great example of that is our appearance in the Cotton Bowl in 2005.

"If anyone ever thought that a playoff system involving teams chosen by a clique of "philosopher kings" would foster fairness in the selection of a college football national champion, that person doesn't know his burro from a burrow."

While I believe (think?) I understand your sentiment here I'm left laughing. "Philosopher kings?" We can run down the list of the six or seven names mentioned to date but let's start with one—Barry Alvarez. Alvarez, a 'philosopher king?'" See why I'm laughing at that?

One thing I do have an issue with right now are those who contend "it's a bad idea from the beginning." Based on what? There is no evidence to support the idea they won't get the top four right. I'm not suggesting there won't be, but assuming and expecting the worse before the rules and requirements are even established on how their decision making process will be made, how transparent it will be, etc.? Paranoia, justified or not in the end, is still paranoia.

One thing I find entertaining is so many fans demanding a change and now that they have it they're using the same reasons they've voiced in the past as to what's wrong with college football to dismiss and discredit a move that's not even defined.

And, on the irony side: So many fans said "we need our voices heard" and now we have a lot of fans upset about the fans voice being heard—coincidentally from the very person they say doesn't belong on the committee.
 
It was touched on a little earlier by plano (if I'm not mistaken) that pointing to "the potential for regional bias, institutional bias, the formation of cabals, and the hatching of back-door deals is enormous" as a reason for avoiding a committee isn't a change from the norm but simply a continuation of what we've seen from the AP poll, the USA Today Coaches poll, etc. I see no argument against the half of a century evidence before us that his assertion is true. I've heard people mention the votes for Michigan from the mid-west writer at the beginning of last season as a great example.

What was done to remove this bias? Institute computer rankings. But yet again, now there are criticisms of said computer rankings despite them playing in our favor.

"Back door deals?" Again, no different. Hell, a great example of that is our appearance in the Cotton Bowl in 2005.

"If anyone ever thought that a playoff system involving teams chosen by a clique of "philosopher kings" would foster fairness in the selection of a college football national champion, that person doesn't know his burro from a burrow."

While I believe (think?) I understand your sentiment here I'm left laughing. "Philosopher kings?" We can run down the list of the six or seven names mentioned to date but let's start with one—Barry Alvarez. Alvarez, a 'philosopher king?'" See why I'm laughing at that?

One thing I do have an issue with right now are those who contend "it's a bad idea from the beginning." Based on what? There is no evidence to support the idea they won't get the top four right. I'm not suggesting there won't be, but assuming and expecting the worse before the rules and requirements are even established on how their decision making process will be made, how transparent it will be, etc.? Paranoia, justified or not in the end, is still paranoia.

One thing I find entertaining is so many fans demanding a change and now that they have it they're using the same reasons they've voiced in the past as to what's wrong with college football to dismiss and discredit a move that's not even defined.

So much in here to respond to. First the content I changed to bold font:

Some of us want an improvement rather than merely a continuation of "the norm." Since when does criticism of the new proposal require support for the previous regime? That's a non sequitur. Perhaps many on this board have supported the BCS system. And perhaps your comments are intended for them. However I can readily admit my criticisms with the BCS despite it having treated Bama (and the SEC) generously. My partisan support for Bama doesn't prevent my objectivity in this regard.

Next, the underlined portions (in order):

1. I think it's important to realize that the criticisms of the computer rankings (of which I'm aware) pertain uniquely to its lack of transparency. I don't know of anyone who fails to appreciate its role as an objective compliment to human polls. I know I do. I'm curious, are you referring to any other complaints in particular?

2. Based on ........ the degree of influence placed squarely in a relatively small number of spectator hands instead of in hands planted on grass. Some of us prefer a more decentralized and objective method. The problem with greater decentralization is that the non-Southeastern portion of the continent is sure to benefit, contrary to the economic interests profiting the most from the status quo. This is what no one really wants to address.

3. There is no evidence to support the idea they won't get the top four right. Okay, you know you're struggling when you ask someone to prove a negative, right? The onus is on none other than the supporters of a particular reform to prove its merits.

4. The next sentence begins with "I'm not suggesting there won't be..." So not only are you asking us to prove a negative, you refuse to even support, much less prove, the positive! Haha, make up your mind. Take a stand. Defend it. Otherwise you're not really arguing anything.

5. The remainder of the underlined portion of that paragraph is part Straw Man, part incoherence. We aren't "expecting the worse," we're simply not satisfied with what we see being proposed so far. Some of us take a principled stand against a committee altogether. And like I've already noted, it is first and foremost the responsibility of the would-be reformer(s) to defend their proposed reforms. "Paranoia"? Really? As if an elemental understanding of human nature doesn't warrant skepticism of such a committee? And the incoherent part of your sentence is found in "justified or not." Actually Terry, paranoia by definition is unjustified concern.

6. This is because the proposed changes don't sufficiently fix matters for those of us dissenting. You're implying that change for change's sake is necessarily a positive. Yea, there remains many unknown variables about the next regime, but it is possible for the few fixed variables to be objectionable to some fans out there.
 
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So much in here to respond to. First the content I changed to bold font:

Some of us want an improvement rather than merely a continuation of "the norm." Since when does criticism of the new proposal require support for the previous regime? That's a non sequitur. Perhaps many on this board have supported the BCS system. And perhaps your comments are intended for them. However I can readily admit my criticisms with the BCS despite it having treated Bama (and the SEC) generously. My partisan support for Bama doesn't prevent my objectivity in this regard.

Next, the underlined portions (in order):

1. I think it's important to realize that the criticisms of the computer rankings (of which I'm aware) pertain uniquely to its lack of transparency. I don't know of anyone who fails to appreciate its role as an objective compliment to human polls. I know I do. I'm curious, are you referring to any other complaints in particular?

2. Based on ........ the degree of influence placed squarely in a relatively small number of spectator hands instead of in hands planted on grass. Some of us prefer a more decentralized and objective method. The problem with greater decentralization is that the non-Southeastern portion of the continent is sure to benefit, contrary to the economic interests profiting the most from the status quo. This is what no one really wants to address.

3. There is no evidence to support the idea they won't get the top four right. Okay, you know you're struggling when you ask someone to prove a negative, right? The onus is on none other than the supporters of a particular reform to prove its merits.

4. The next sentence begins with "I'm not suggesting there won't be..." So not only are you asking us to prove a negative, you refuse to even support, much less prove, the positive! Haha, make up your mind. Take a stand. Defend it. Otherwise you're not really arguing anything.

5. The remainder of the underlined portion of that paragraph is part Straw Man, part incoherence. We aren't "expecting the worse," we're simply not satisfied with what we see being proposed so far. Some of us take a principled stand against a committee altogether. And like I've already noted, it is first and foremost the responsibility of the would-be reformer(s) to defend their proposed reforms. "Paranoia"? Really? As if an elemental understanding of human nature doesn't warrant skepticism of such a committee? And the incoherent part of your sentence is found in "justified or not." Actually Terry, paranoia by definition is unjustified concern.

6. This is because the proposed changes don't sufficiently fix matters for those of us dissenting. You're implying that change for change's sake is necessarily a positive. Yea, there remains many unknown variables about the next regime, but it is possible for the few fixed variables to be objectionable to some fans out there.

Here we go again...

musso, 'preciate the participation and all but a comment here and there I've seen make me want to avoid having a discussion with you on this subject.

I look at these discussions about like a conversation around a bar. I don't get you.
 
musso, 'preciate the participation and all but a comment here and there I've seen make me want to avoid having a discussion with you on this subject.

Have I not met the minimum required level of activity on this board or something? I figured my sporadic activity was made up for by my enduring membership. :biggrin_blue:

I look at these discussions about like a conversation around a bar. I don't get you.

You ever embark on a 408 word monologue in a bar? I don't.

Both the quantity and quality of your post signaled to me that you took your views seriously enough to appreciate a thorough reply. Considering how I took issue with so much in your post, I obliged. And you don't get that?
 
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Have I not met the minimum required level of activity on this board or something? I figured my sporadic activity was made up for by my enduring membership. :biggrin_blue:



You ever embark on a 408 word monologue in a bar? I don't.

Both the quantity and quality of your post signaled to me that you took your views seriously enough to appreciate a thorough reply. Considering how I took issue with so much in your post, I obliged. And you don't get that?

Well the reply was a little tedious but that's ok. It is remarkable to me the range of perspective on this issue, on this board & off it.

Trying to keep my perspective; I recall the days before the BCS, the clear bias of it. I also recal after the first 6 years of the BCS Auburn was left out of the BCSNCG in 2004 & how nobody thought the BCS leaned towards the SEC. 9 years later, where 6 of those years had SEC champs, quite the opposite. The computer rankings BTW & how they are calculated are transparent. Understanding the calculations mathmatically, well quite the opposite too. Remember, the BCS is an average who's formula has been programmed by mathmaticians blessed by a committee :biggrin_blue:. So your entire point regarding committee's may very well be supported & renounced all at once.

The fact of the matter is this; whenever you have a group of any determining the outcome for all, there will be complaints. That is the price we pay for this thinking. It is just better than having one person make all the rules...
 
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Does a "committee" decide who makes it into the NFL playoffs? There are plenty of ways to implement a system that take out having a bunch of well-connected big-wigs looking at film or whatever it is they will be doing to decide who the best teams are.

Take this year for instance, we could end up with 5 undefeated teams or 5, 1-loss teams. Bama being one of those. A committee would decide which 4 "deserve" to be there. You think Alvarez, Manning, Tranghese and most of the others would want to see Bama make it AGAIN? You really think having Rice on there would benefit Bama in any way? Maybe her ability to help lie the country into a war means she has some special skill at manipulating others. But how do we know that would work in our favor just because she is from Alabama? We'd get the shaft and for no other reason than "sick of Bama". Why? Because it is human nature and we would act the same way if Ohio State had one 3 of the last 4 NC's.

Yes, a committee may agree on the mathematical formulas before the season, but once the season starts, the math doesn't lie, play favorites, or "get tired of Bama". You plug in the data, you get the output. The only other option is to re-organize college football into some sort of format similar to the NFL where teams actually play their way through their divisions into the playoffs. Which is what I would want if I had any say in the matter.
 
Well the reply was a little tedious but that's ok. It is remarkable to me the range of perspective on this issue, on this board & off it.

Trying to keep my perspective; I recall the days before the BCS, the clear bias of it. I also recal after the first 6 years of the BCS Auburn was left out of the BCSNCG in 2004 & how nobody thought the BCS leaned towards the SEC. 9 years later, where 6 of those years had SEC champs, quite the opposite. The computer rankings BTW & how they are calculated are transparent. Understanding the calculations mathmatically, well quite the opposite too. Remember, the BCS is an average who's formula has been programmed by mathmaticians blessed by a committee :biggrin_blue:. So your entire point regarding committee's may very well be supported & renounced all at once.

The fact of the matter is this; whenever you have a group of any determining the outcome for all, there will be complaints. That is the price we pay for this thinking. It is just better than having one person make all the rules...

I don't pretend that the elimination of criticisms, complaints, opinions, etc. is possible or even desirable. Neither do I want one person making all the rules. Of course, everyone won't be pleased all the time. I get it.

But there is another option other than the fantasy land of universal acceptance, a dictatorship, BCS computers, or a benevolent committee. I'm merely arguing for, as I said in my post, a more decentralized and objective qualifying criteria. Perhaps I was too abstract, but Cjaytch offered a useful, concrete example: the NFL. NFL fans may have particular complaints about play-off eligibility, but at least everyone knows what they have to do in order to qualify. Moreover, play off eligibility isn't up to a mysterious algorithm or the biases of an anointed group of committee members. It's an objective standard.

It's not rocket science here: win your conference and you're automatically in the play off. Or something like that which decentralizes decision making. Maybe keep human polling and computers involved in rankings, for the purpose of adding a few of the highest ranked "at-large" teams to the play off, in order to account for talent disparities among conferences. There are many options I could live with as long as teams are empowered in determining their own destiny, instead of playing all season long in the hope that computers or a committee look upon them with favor at season's end.
 
Does a "committee" decide who makes it into the NFL playoffs? There are plenty of ways to implement a system that take out having a bunch of well-connected big-wigs looking at film or whatever it is they will be doing to decide who the best teams are.

Does it matter how the NFL decides who makes the playoffs? Are you suggesting you want college football to emulate the NFL?

Take this year for instance, we could end up with 5 undefeated teams or 5, 1-loss teams. Bama being one of those. A committee would decide which 4 "deserve" to be there. You think Alvarez, Manning, Tranghese and most of the others would want to see Bama make it AGAIN? You really think having Rice on there would benefit Bama in any way? Maybe her ability to help lie the country into a war means she has some special skill at manipulating others. But how do we know that would work in our favor just because she is from Alabama? We'd get the shaft and for no other reason than "sick of Bama". Why? Because it is human nature and we would act the same way if Ohio State had one 3 of the last 4 NC's.

Let's take the top five teams as of today using the AP poll:

Alabama
Oregon
Clemson
Ohio State
Stanford.

If we assume all four finish the year with one loss how hard is it for anyone to look at these five and pick four who have proven more than the other? Ohio State gets left out. How hard was that?

Do you think these guys you've mentioned would vote against a team just because they've been successful for a few years running?

You mention it would be human nature for some to be biased. I can understand that theory but I don't see that as realistic. Especially if the transparency suggestions mention so far are followed.



Yes, a committee may agree on the mathematical formulas before the season, but once the season starts, the math doesn't lie, play favorites, or "get tired of Bama". You plug in the data, you get the output. The only other option is to re-organize college football into some sort of format similar to the NFL where teams actually play their way through their divisions into the playoffs. Which is what I would want if I had any say in the matter.

How do you answer those that say following an NFL model would ruin the regular season?
 
It was touched on a little earlier by plano (if I'm not mistaken) that pointing to "the potential for regional bias, institutional bias, the formation of cabals, and the hatching of back-door deals is enormous" as a reason for avoiding a committee isn't a change from the norm but simply a continuation of what we've seen from the AP poll, the USA Today Coaches poll, etc. I see no argument against the half of a century evidence before us that his assertion is true. I've heard people mention the votes for Michigan from the mid-west writer at the beginning of last season as a great example.

What was done to remove this bias? Institute computer rankings. But yet again, now there are criticisms of said computer rankings despite them playing in our favor.

"Back door deals?" Again, no different. Hell, a great example of that is our appearance in the Cotton Bowl in 2005.

"If anyone ever thought that a playoff system involving teams chosen by a clique of "philosopher kings" would foster fairness in the selection of a college football national champion, that person doesn't know his burro from a burrow."

While I believe (think?) I understand your sentiment here I'm left laughing. "Philosopher kings?" We can run down the list of the six or seven names mentioned to date but let's start with one—Barry Alvarez. Alvarez, a 'philosopher king?'" See why I'm laughing at that?

One thing I do have an issue with right now are those who contend "it's a bad idea from the beginning." Based on what? There is no evidence to support the idea they won't get the top four right. I'm not suggesting there won't be, but assuming and expecting the worse before the rules and requirements are even established on how their decision making process will be made, how transparent it will be, etc.? Paranoia, justified or not in the end, is still paranoia.

One thing I find entertaining is so many fans demanding a change and now that they have it they're using the same reasons they've voiced in the past as to what's wrong with college football to dismiss and discredit a move that's not even defined.

And, on the irony side: So many fans said "we need our voices heard" and now we have a lot of fans upset about the fans voice being heard—coincidentally from the very person they say doesn't belong on the committee.

1. No doubt, the poll-based system produced some unjust national championship decisions. 1966 and 1977 come readily to mind for most Alabama fans. Would a playoff system of the kind that will be implemented in 2014 have prevented these outcomes? Maybe. One can only guess, but, at least the regional biases reflected in those cases were broad-based, transparent, and undeniable. The miscarriages of justice involved cannot be blamed on the personality quirks of a few misguided individuals. (2) "Philosopher Kings" is simply a way of expressing the fact that the people who are selecting the members of this rarified "blue ribbon panel" are obviously attempting to sprinkle in just enough "impeccable reputation" value to offset a manifest lack of current, day-to-day, college football knowledge on the part of the selectees. How about a Nobel Prize winner being invited to join? Would that lend sufficient dignity to the proceedings to validate an otherwise untenable playoff team selection decision? The committee idea is simply a debacle in the making and anybody with a grain of sense knows it.
 
but Cjaytch offered a useful, concrete example: the NFL. NFL fans may have particular complaints about play-off eligibility, but at least everyone knows what they have to do in order to qualify. Moreover, play off eligibility isn't up to a mysterious algorithm or the biases of an anointed group of committee members. It's an objective standard.

It's not rocket science here: win your conference and you're automatically in the play off. Or something like that which decentralizes decision making.

Sounds good to me... the closer we get to more playoffs the better. However, if we continue this way College FB will look more & more like College BB.
 
My 89 year old mother knows as much or more baseball and football than I do and I played. She watches and studies the games and the teams religiously and technically. Mainly, she has the character that people trust (even though she is a die hard BAMA, Braves fan) when objectively analyzing the teams.

Fans and Women have made all of our sports better including football, hunting and fishing...more interesting for us to watch, encouraging more young people to participate and making the business models a hell of a lot better.

This is a little bit elitist and dumb
 
ha...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>Ultimate irony in the Pat Dye/Condi Rice debate, just told <a href="https://twitter.com/openingdrive">@openingdrive</a> he never knew who he voted for in coaches poll, SID voted for him.</p>&mdash; Ryan Brown (@RyanBrownWJOX) <a href="https://twitter.com/RyanBrownWJOX/statuses/392282967802122240">October 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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