| FTBL CNS coaching tree question

[rammerjammer]

With so many guys out there now that have learned under the master. They try and take away as much as they can and emulate his plan to be successful.


I know that several folks took his model for recruiting. For each position you have minimum and ideal metrics. Height/weight/speed ect.

I know for a fact Muschamp used that for his positions at UF and I assume for USCe. I would imagine that most of the other guys use that in determining who to offer.


Do these guys adhere to the same model when it comes to running their offense/defense and special teams. All phases of the game are Sabans system and the OC/DC get to add wrinkles and nuances, but they learn coaches system/nomenclature, etc. I have always felt this is the best model and seems almost necessary in todays fluid market of coaches leaving and coming in d/t opportunity or firing.

Do we know if the other guys have emulated that as well? Smart, Cristoball, Napier, Locksley,?

 

[TerryP]

Do we know if the other guys have emulated that as well? Smart,

When Smart handed out his "plan" for the Georgia football program some of the pages still had the Alabama logo on them: literally. Others were copy and pasted, UGA logo added, and they still knew it was Bama's. His entire plan mirrored Alabama's.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

When Smart handed out his "plan" for the Georgia football program some of the pages still had the Alabama logo on them: literally. Others were copy and pasted, UGA logo added, and they still knew it was Bama's. His entire plan mirrored Alabama's.

Smart...being smart

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Regarding Smart, even toward the end of the game, Herbie noted that Smart was clear he used Alabama as the pattern to build Georgia. Why wouldn't he?

Much of Coach Saban's tree has been "grafted", meaning he's taken in many coaches who already had long careers or prior stints at equal or higher levels of responsibility before joining with him. Smart and Pruitt are perhaps the two best examples of long-term hires of on-the-field coaches who developed under him. Cristobal's work on the OL was big for us, and for him, to move him along in his career. Burns was probably the longest tenured assistant on the offensive side. Kiffin and Sark are well documented.

RTR,

Tim

 

[rammerjammer]

I know when Locksley left he said he was attempting to implement any and everything possible from CNS at Maryland.

I know there is a ton that goes on behind the scenes when it comes to running a major program. Ancillary staff to make sure guys are going to class, tutors to make sure that guys are making the grade and are eligible to play.

The major question was if they all too the model of it being the Head Coaches offense/defense/special teams. And whomever the coordinator, adapts to the HC's philosophy and adds wrinkles, like what we have seen under Saban.

In years past it seemed that when a new OC came in to a school that it took a bit of time for everything to gel. (more than one season)
We all remember the Tony Franklin debacle at Auburn and he had all those guys that were set up for a pro offense and were too big to run the nimble RPO/HUNH type offense they were trying to implement. On the opposite side, Alabama had issues in 13/14 while Saban changed defensively in order to have guys that were fast enough to "play in space" as he liked to call it.

I have always thought the way Saban does it was the right way. I never understood when Shula came in to be HC, why he changed the offense. Why didn't he learn what was in place from the spring and start tweaking and changing as the season went along. That has always chapped my ass.

 

[TerryP]

Regarding Smart, even toward the end of the game, Herbie noted that Smart was clear he used Alabama as the pattern to build Georgia. Why wouldn't he?

And when it gets to the point you've got a guy laying out spring ball schedules, work out schedules, coaching meetings, and the like and these schedules are Alabama's is it still a "why wouldn't he?"

Literally, that first years staff is looking at a daily schedule that has Bama's logo on it but it also has UGA's pasted on it as well.

Why wouldn't I? That's stealing someone else's stuff, ya know? It's one thing to imitate, it's another to steal.

 

[mando]

And when it gets to the point you've got a guy laying out spring ball schedules, work out schedules, coaching meetings, and the like and these schedules are Alabama's is it still a "why wouldn't he?"

Literally, that first years staff is looking at a daily schedule that has Bama's logo on it but it also has UGA's pasted on it as well.

Why wouldn't I? That's stealing someone else's stuff, ya know? It's one thing to imitate, it's another to steal.

I would expect coaches contracts to start being written with some protection for Alabama. Done in business every day and yes it is hard to monitor and manage but it is legally binding document.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

And when it gets to the point you've got a guy laying out spring ball schedules, work out schedules, coaching meetings, and the like and these schedules are Alabama's is it still a "why wouldn't he?"

Literally, that first years staff is looking at a daily schedule that has Bama's logo on it but it also has UGA's pasted on it as well.

Why wouldn't I? That's stealing someone else's stuff, ya know? It's one thing to imitate, it's another to steal.

I get the tone of your sentiment that the program materials were stolen. Don't be lazy, go make you own, right?

I think this is the norm. Not the exception. Heck, he pretty much stole much of the staff too. This is the just the price or cost of being successful. I for one, thought it was just a matter of time for Kirby to get him a NC at Jawja. He learned from the best. He stuck around at 'Bama as long as anyone at this point (coachwise) & we were successful with him. He recruits players almost on the same level. And he's leagues ahead of Dabo as a HC. Now we are going to see how well he manages being successful.

But we still have the most important piece of the our success... CNS, who I think has already turned a corner with adjusting our team offensive philosophy. Kirby just had a more healthy & mature team this year. It happens.

 

[TerryP]

I get the tone of your sentiment that the program materials were stolen. Don't be lazy, go make you own, right?

After so many years under that schedule you'd think he'd remember it all. I have a hard time with lazy.

He's a bathroom sponge: small, abrasive, and full of these little pieces of shit.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

And when it gets to the point you've got a guy laying out spring ball schedules, work out schedules, coaching meetings, and the like and these schedules are Alabama's is it still a "why wouldn't he?"

Literally, that first years staff is looking at a daily schedule that has Bama's logo on it but it also has UGA's pasted on it as well.

Why wouldn't I? That's stealing someone else's stuff, ya know? It's one thing to imitate, it's another to steal.

@TerryP you remind me of Michael Jordan trying to manufacture an offense to be angry. Do you think Saban didn't take playbooks from Michigan State to LSU, or any other stop along the way? Is it all Saban's now, or Alabama's? Also, given his long-term role in the program, do you really think that Kirby had no hand - over the course of his assistant and DC time at Bama - in developing some of what Bama did on defense and at practices? I doubt Alabama coaching contracts say all documentation developed by the coach during their tenure at the University is considered the intellectual property of the school and the coach cannot take any materials should they leave their job. There are no registered patents and defendable trade secrets in college coaching. There is copying what successful coaches do, and avoiding the public blunders of others. Their entire bodies of work are on film, there for the consideration of others. Coaches commiserate with one another in the offseason, sharing strategies, techniques and - probably - how they run practices.

I don't get the anger that a coach left and copied what was being done by his successful head coach. I'd be more surprised if any of those who left for HC jobs didn't take something with them and try to copy it. The only thing I was really pissed about at the time was Kirby using Alabama's recruiting board to leverage recruits. That was slimy. So, I'm not a Kirby fan, but let him have his day. Heck, the 24, 48 and 72 hour rules have all passed. I'm more concerned about our roster heading into winter conditioning, final recruiting/transfer information, and spring practice. Keep leaning forward.

RTR,

Tim

 

[TerryP]

@It Takes Eleven you're assuming that since I consider Kirby to be a piece of shit I also, subsequently, feel anger towards him. The lack of respect doesn't require anger. I don't consider anger to be a required ingredient in disgust.

I don't respect him and I find who he is and what he's doing disgusting.

You're also assuming my post is in someway related to Monday's game. Yet, this subject(s) with Kirby is something I've been pointing to since the day he left Tuscaloosa, continuously.

While it's a different chapter it is the same book. Did you consider what I said several years ago about Hugh Freeze as being angry? Did you think it was a result solely based on losses on the football field? Or, did those comments read as someone knowing he was cheating while recruiting, was a piece of shit off the football field, and was disgusted with who he was as a person? I hope my comments reflected the lack of respect I had for him during that era.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

@It Takes Eleven you're assuming that since I consider Kirby to be a piece of shit I also, subsequently, feel anger towards him. The lack of respect doesn't require anger. I don't consider anger to be a required ingredient in disgust.

I don't respect him and I find who he is and what he's doing disgusting.

You're also assuming my post is in someway related to Monday's game. Yet, this subject(s) with Kirby is something I've been pointing to since the day he left Tuscaloosa, continuously.

While it's a different chapter it is the same book. Did you consider what I said several years ago about Hugh Freeze as being angry? Did you think it was a result solely based on losses on the football field? Or, did those comments read as someone knowing he was cheating while recruiting, was a piece of shit off the football field, and was disgusted with who he was as a person? I hope my comments reflected the lack of respect I had for him during that era.

Okay, disgust and disrespect, not anger. Coaches copy things all the time, taking and bringing along their stops. That was the key aspect of your post. Beyond copying Bama lock, stock and barrel, what is disgusting about him and causes you to have no respect? Recruiting tactics?

I don't know what you've said about Freeze.

 

[TerryP]

Okay, disgust and disrespect, not anger. Coaches copy things all the time, taking and bringing along their stops. That was the key aspect of your post. Beyond copying Bama lock, stock and barrel, what is disgusting about him and causes you to have no respect? Recruiting tactics?

I don't know what you've said about Freeze.

I've been pointing to these things for awhile now from his last days in Tuscaloosa up until today: numerous things since he's been the top Dawg over there. Where does the disgust and lack of respect come from?

Liar?
Cheater?
Thief?

In the fall of 2012 we had a thread here about Freeze and what was going on at Ole Miss. The phrase I used at the time was along the lines of "65 in a school zone." As we moved through the 2013 class the suggestion of "players being paid again" was dismissed under the cloak Freeze had doned: Briarwood Christian and his story with his first wife and kids. Pointing back to those conversations in 2014 was quickly met with dismissal caused by the Bama loss. My opinion of Freeze wasn't based just on the recruiting, or this false persona he'd built about his faith. At this point the "Daily Dalliances of Hugh Freeze" was no longer behind closed doors.

 

[rick4bama]

It like kudzu once you get it, keep spreading! He now has three coaching in the SEC now?