📡 Cam Robinson and Hootie Jones arrested

[ElephantStomp]

You make very valid points... And here's what you've got to understand.

This is a ridiculous fan base. Seriously. But the ridiculous expectations are what has almost forced Alabama to be dominant. Those same fans that walked out of the Ole Miss game are the same fans that weren't happy until Saban came to Alabama... And remember, Saban chose Alabama for a reason... It wasn't the roster.

Bama fans are blinded by passion and that passion leads to an amazing amount of support. You could point out little negative things all day about fans leaving early, fans being mad about their players being arrested, fans clowning the kicker for sucking ass, etc., but those expectations are what makes Alabama so awesome.

Valid points and I agree. I just don't believe the fans are more important than the players.

 

[musso]

You're claiming it's all about the players and their sacrifice and ultimately we have very little to do with the Alabama football program. The player's are the ones that make the program, not the fan support, boosters, facilities etc. Also think I saw something about if we lose the fanbase is nowhere to be found and minimizes. Did I miss something?

Based on your posts and comments against your posts I think I pegged it. Anyways, in other news..

Dude ... were you drunk, or is it difficult for you to process large quantities of text?

I most certainly gave credit to fans among other aspects of the University. Here are some of my excerpts for your convenience:

No one denies fan support is a huge factor. No one denies coaching is a factor. No one denies capital investment, facilities, and academic support are a big factors too, especially today. But even the best coaches have always said that it ultimately comes down to players making plays...

Yes, fan support matters a lot, but not as much as the effort, sacrifices, and bravery of the players...

Rather, I'm saying that there are aspects to winning (and winning consistently) that can only come from the resilience, endurance, creativity, and tenacity of the players themselves.

Being able to replace blue chips with more blue chips is one thing, and yes, fan support and patronage is a huge factor with attracting these blue chips. But while they are here, fans have far less to do with their performance and grit.​

Meanwhile no one has answered my questions:

Was it the exceptionalism of Alabama fans that won (or is deserving of most of the credit for) the early national championships of the 20s, 30s, 40s, etc., when there were more prominent programs around with larger fan bases? I've read that between Bryant's 60s and 70s titles there was huge support among fans to fire him ... fire the greatest coach ever ... "awesome fans" wanted this. Or was it first and foremost Alabama players on the field beating the players opposite of them and sometimes good coaching, sometimes bad coaching behind them, and sometimes supportive fans and sometimes fair-weather fans behind them?

You can't tell me fan support helped a much-maligned Griffith have a marvelous game against Clemson. You can't tell me fan support helped a much-maligned Coaker have a flawless postseason. You can't tell me fan support helped a much-maligned OJ Howard have a break out game against Clemson ...

The players didn't come to Alabama to see fans empty the stadium during the Ole Miss game and miss a near comeback... [Ironically it was] that very loss of confidence by fans and media that helped unify the players to go on its winning streak to finish out the season...​

 

[im4uainva]

Getting back to the theme of condemning the players before the facts were in, I'm ashamed to say I am guilty of that on page one. And I should know better. Just as in the cases of previous players having a run-in with the authorities, I always thought to leave it up to due process, and CNS. This time I just jumped to a conclusion, figuring that the initial reports were damning in and of itself, I figured these guys were gone. I hope I'm proven wrong after the facts and circumstances are cleared for everyone to make an informed and fair determination of Cam's and Hootie's future.

Roll, National Champions, Roll!

 

[musso]

LOL. Man... Every disagreement isn't a straw man.

I agree. I didn't say every disagreement was, just this one with you. I already painstakingly explained how. Sorry if you still don't understand.

... you say players, and I say the fans, pointing out that that the players come here because of the fans is a pretty pertinent point. And extremely accurate.

And again, you still misunderstand my view. That's okay.

 

[BamaFan334]

Dude ... were you drunk, or is it difficult for you to process large quantities of text?

I most certainly gave credit to fans among other aspects of the University. Here are some of my excerpts for your convenience:

No one denies fan support is a huge factor. No one denies coaching is a factor. No one denies capital investment, facilities, and academic support are a big factors too, especially today. But even the best coaches have always said that it ultimately comes down to players making plays...

Yes, fan support matters a lot, but not as much as the effort, sacrifices, and bravery of the players...

Rather, I'm saying that there are aspects to winning (and winning consistently) that can only come from the resilience, endurance, creativity, and tenacity of the players themselves.

Being able to replace blue chips with more blue chips is one thing, and yes, fan support and patronage is a huge factor with attracting these blue chips. But while they are here, fans have far less to do with their performance and grit.​

Meanwhile no one has answered my questions:

Was it the exceptionalism of Alabama fans that won (or is deserving of most of the credit for) the early national championships of the 20s, 30s, 40s, etc., when there were more prominent programs around with larger fan bases? I've read that between Bryant's 60s and 70s titles there was huge support among fans to fire him ... fire the greatest coach ever ... "awesome fans" wanted this. Or was it first and foremost Alabama players on the field beating the players opposite of them and sometimes good coaching, sometimes bad coaching behind them, and sometimes supportive fans and sometimes fair-weather fans behind them?

You can't tell me fan support helped a much-maligned Griffith have a marvelous game against Clemson. You can't tell me fan support helped a much-maligned Coaker have a flawless postseason. You can't tell me fan support helped a much-maligned OJ Howard have a break out game against Clemson ...

The players didn't come to Alabama to see fans empty the stadium during the Ole Miss game and miss a near comeback... [Ironically it was] that very loss of confidence by fans and media that helped unify the players to go on its winning streak to finish out the season...​

No, not drunk, basically seeing it the same way as Tidestalker. Don't get mad.

 

[musso]

Don't worry. I'm not. Just enjoying a good conversation.

 

[musso]

What would be a fun topic is whose fans, say in the SEC, are the most supportive of their teams. According to you guys, since Bama has been the most successful SEC program lately, it would require Bama fans being the most supportive fan base. Curious if this hypothesis would hold up under scrutiny.

 

[OldPlayer]

Getting back to the theme of condemning the players before the facts were in, I'm ashamed to say I am guilty of that on page one. And I should know better. Just as in the cases of previous players having a run-in with the authorities, I always thought to leave it up to due process, and CNS. This time I just jumped to a conclusion, figuring that the initial reports were damning in and of itself, I figured these guys were gone. I hope I'm proven wrong after the facts and circumstances are cleared for everyone to make an informed and fair determination of Cam's and Hootie's future.

Roll, National Champions, Roll!

Based on the charges, it's hard to say they're not guilty (It was them, they did have weed and they did have guns). However, the charges may be changed as part of a plea deal or other legal gymnastics. Whatever happens, there will be Saban-implemented punishment. The question is to what extent? Saban needs to make a punishment statement about poor decisions and the impact on the individual, the team and the school.

 

[Sid Youngleman]

Saban needs to make a punishment statement about poor decisions and the impact on the individual, the team and the school.

First, I don't intend this to be directed personally at OldPlayer or any other poster, but I'm profoundly tired of seeing criminal acts on the part of athletes be characterized as "bad decisions" (typically by their coach during the mandatory post-arrest press conference). Choosing the door that doesn't have the Cadillac behind it is a bad decision. Being in possession of illegal substances -- like it or not, and I've possessed some in my time -- and stolen property is a crime. Employing euphemisms to blur the reality of criminal behavior masks both the legal and, with some crimes, the moral dimensions of such behavior.
[Dismounting soapbox with aid of comely blonde assistant]

 

[BamaFan334]

First, I don't intend this to be directed personally at OldPlayer or any other poster, but I'm profoundly tired of seeing criminal acts on the part of athletes be characterized as "bad decisions" (typically by their coach during the mandatory post-arrest press conference). Choosing the door that doesn't have the Cadillac behind it is a bad decision. Being in possession of illegal substances -- like it or not, and I've possessed some in my time -- and stolen property is a crime. Employing euphemisms to blur the reality of criminal behavior masks both the legal and, with some crimes, the moral dimensions of such behavior.
[Dismounting soapbox with aid of comely blonde assistant]

Amen. Glad someone else sees it like I do. So many people do their best to lighten the situation to provide some glare of hope. I see it just like you do.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

Have you guys shaken your dikks and ended the pissing contest yet?

J/w, TIA. RTR.

 

[OldPlayer]

First, I don't intend this to be directed personally at OldPlayer or any other poster, but I'm profoundly tired of seeing criminal acts on the part of athletes be characterized as "bad decisions" (typically by their coach during the mandatory post-arrest press conference). Choosing the door that doesn't have the Cadillac behind it is a bad decision. Being in possession of illegal substances -- like it or not, and I've possessed some in my time -- and stolen property is a crime. Employing euphemisms to blur the reality of criminal behavior masks both the legal and, with some crimes, the moral dimensions of such behavior.
[Dismounting soapbox with aid of comely blonde assistant]

I hear you and we agree. Their bad decisions were crimes. We have to remember that they chose to do it. It was their decision to have a gun (stolen or not), weed and be in a closed park. Some decisions are good. Some are bad. No matter what, they made the decision that led to their arrest.

 

[PhillyGirl]

First, I don't intend this to be directed personally at OldPlayer or any other poster, but I'm profoundly tired of seeing criminal acts on the part of athletes be characterized as "bad decisions" (typically by their coach during the mandatory post-arrest press conference). Choosing the door that doesn't have the Cadillac behind it is a bad decision. Being in possession of illegal substances -- like it or not, and I've possessed some in my time -- and stolen property is a crime. Employing euphemisms to blur the reality of criminal behavior masks both the legal and, with some crimes, the moral dimensions of such behavior.
[Dismounting soapbox with aid of comely blonde assistant]

Nailed it.

 

[rueben]

When someone post something directly relevant to Hootie Jones or Cam Robinson, ( and their current situation) please msg me. Until then I will assume all new post on his thread are some philosophical B.S> about how your views and opinions will change the world.
Thank you.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

When someone post something directly relevant to Hootie Jones or Cam Robinson, ( and their current situation) please msg me. Until then I will assume all new post on his thread are some philosophical B.S> about how your views and opinions will change the world.
Thank you.

 

[rueben]