🏀 GAME THREAD 🏀 #25 Alabama vs. #20 Arkansas - Bama Wins Double-OT Thriller against Arkansas, 117-115

[RTB X Bot]

 

[BamaFan334]

I truly hate the logo on the shorts.

Ours or theirs? I love both.

 

[TerryP]

@TerryP did this game sort of remind you of those early 90’s games between Bama and Arky when Arky first entered the league? It did for me!

You and Tim been chatting?

 

[Justneedme81]

Thought I would join Bammerboy321 - Oats call a timeout and please play some defense. pathetic.

Welcome !

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

Let's talk defense for a minute. Yes, this team struggles on defense. I agree with others that Adams needs to go and Oats needs to find a more "proven" replacement. But, Oats also needs to find more guys that can play good defense... players that are physically built for it while also matching his system and find players that are willing (and even eager) to play good defense (Oats suggested in the fall that Hannah fit this mold for example). If you have to remind the same few players every 3 days how important it is and keep lighting fires under them, then you either have the wrong guys or you you're not preparing them properly. Oats has said many, many times in the past how much he values defense, and the fact that good defensive play only amplifies his offensive efficiency and output, it makes sense that it isn't just lip service. We also know that Oats can put a top defense on the floor, having done so in '21 and in '23 when UA had the #3 defense (Kenpom).

But, what we also know, is at this point in this season, much like last season, we are not going to see that type of high level play on the defensive end. For spurts, yes. But not consistently from tip to horn, game to game, week to week. They'll just have to overcome it other ways and see how far their other intangibles can carry them (last year, it was still pretty far).

Lastly, and this is really the reason for the post... while the defense isn't top 10 (it's actually 64th at the moment), it isn't complete trash either. It's bad by the standards that Oats wants it, and we want it, but at times they do step up. Last night in the 2nd half, they stepped up. IMO, they are not good enough on that end for a final 4 run... sweet 16 feels like the ceiling for this team and it will take stong play from the guards to even get them to that point, but Oats and his teams have found magic in March/April before so I won't write them off. I will say, I think some fans are being a bit too unrealistic about what they are wanting on the defensive end. And if you're basing the quality of the defense solely on total points given up, and I know some fans are, then you are on the wrong path and being unfair to the defense from the start.

 

[TerryP]

I will say, I think some fans are being a bit too unrealistic about what they are wanting on the defensive end. And if you're basing the quality of the defense solely on total points given up, and I know some fans are, then you are on the wrong path and being unfair to the defense from the start.

I had this conversation today. Almost identical, except. (I could make this about food, but I won't.)

I mentioned PPP two, maybe three days ago. And here is the analogy. This team is John Daly. You don't sacrifice the distance for staying in the short stuff.

As much as my basketball love hates saying this: shoot. Shoot. Shoot. And then, shoot.

While this team does jump off the screen with defense, they've got some backbone. I don't think they will while I also think they can 'run' anyone.

 

[TerryP]

With the way both teams were playing offense last night is there a defense that could have stopped the scoring?

 

[BamaFan334]

Let's talk defense for a minute. Yes, this team struggles on defense. I agree with others that Adams needs to go and Oats needs to find a more "proven" replacement. But, Oats also needs to find more guys that can play good defense... players that are physically built for it while also matching his system and find players that are willing (and even eager) to play good defense (Oats suggested in the fall that Hannah fit this mold for example). If you have to remind the same few players every 3 days how important it is and keep lighting fires under them, then you either have the wrong guys or you you're not preparing them properly. Oats has said many, many times in the past how much he values defense, and the fact that good defensive play only amplifies his offensive efficiency and output, it makes sense that it isn't just lip service. We also know that Oats can put a top defense on the floor, having done so in '21 and in '23 when UA had the #3 defense (Kenpom).

But, what we also know, is at this point in this season, much like last season, we are not going to see that type of high level play on the defensive end. For spurts, yes. But not consistently from tip to horn, game to game, week to week. They'll just have to overcome it other ways and see how far their other intangibles can carry them (last year, it was still pretty far).

Lastly, and this is really the reason for the post... while the defense isn't top 10 (it's actually 64th at the moment), it isn't complete trash either. It's bad by the standards that Oats wants it, and we want it, but at times they do step up. Last night in the 2nd half, they stepped up. IMO, they are not good enough on that end for a final 4 run... sweet 16 feels like the ceiling for this team and it will take stong play from the guards to even get them to that point, but Oats and his teams have found magic in March/April before so I won't write them off. I will say, I think some fans are being a bit too unrealistic about what they are wanting on the defensive end. And if you're basing the quality of the defense solely on total points given up, and I know some fans are, then you are on the wrong path and being unfair to the defense from the start.

Good luck finding a rim protector that can run tge floor like Oats wants to run. That's the issue.

Your more generous than I am because we get freaking killed by the good teams with our defense. We get help by playing the Ole Miss, Mississippi State, South Carolina's when it comes to the rankings and averages you disclosed. Florida, Gonzaga, Arizona, Purdue, and Vanderbilt put it on us and we needed to average 98 to win. You can teach defense. We have athletes, not a lot of baby giraffes running around. Bol Bowen for example is pathetic. He has the length and build to move and defend.

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

Good luck finding a rim protector that can run tge floor like Oats wants to run. That's the issue.

Your more generous than I am because we get freaking killed by the good teams with our defense. We get help by playing the Ole Miss, Mississippi State, South Carolina's when it comes to the rankings and averages you disclosed. Florida, Gonzaga, Arizona, Purdue, and Vanderbilt put it on us and we needed to average 98 to win. You can teach defense. We have athletes, not a lot of baby giraffes running around. Bol Bowen for example is pathetic. He has the length and build to move and defend.

So does everyone else, but if anything, Bama's average should be weighed pretty heavily with good offenses opposed to most all others since they have a top 3 SOS. Bowen is an example of what I touched on... getting players that fit and will play defense. The whole portal class was a whiff in that department. That's on Oats. And while I think Adams needs to go, it only made his job harder.

 

[BamaFan334]

So does everyone else, but if anything, Bama's average should be weighed pretty heavily with good offenses opposed to most all others since they have a top 3 SOS. Bowen is an example of what I touched on... getting players that fit and will play defense. The whole portal class was a whiff in that department. That's on Oats. And while I think Adams needs to go, it only made his job harder.

We played a tough ass schedule, no doubt. Not an excuse for me though. Understandable with one or two, but not all of them. Other teams have held them and beat them. I never woulda guessed Texas Tech and Kansas beat Arizona. Never woulda thought Carolina beats Duke. They found ways and we really never did and we're outclassed.

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

We played a tough ass schedule, no doubt. Not an excuse for me though. Understandable with one or two, but not all of them. Other teams have held them and beat them. I never woulda guessed Texas Tech and Kansas beat Arizona. Never woulda thought Carolina beats Duke. They found ways and we really never did and we're outclassed.

Not meant to be an excuse on my end either, just pointing out that playing the best teams and so many good offensive teams (more than most anyone), impacts the numbers some. Just my opinion that overall, the defense has been better in some areas and phases than others would admit (or believe). Not that the defense is where it needs to be or should be. But I also think some are expecting (at this point in the season) way more than a realistic fan should expect. And I think others are just flat out moving goalposts in their head thinking that UA should hold opponents to less than 55 points a game.

Personally, I don't really subscribe much to the Team A beat Team B so Bama should have found a way as well. I do agree that a team like Florida (or at least a dozen other teams) are a cut above Alabama. I also saw auburn. beat Florida just before the Gators destroyed Bama. And I haven't seen auburn win since, including losing to Bama at their place. To me, that doesn't change that UF would almost certainly beat Bama again if they played this Saturday in Coleman.

 

[UAgrad93]

You and Tim been chatting?

FFFUUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKK NO!!!

 

[BamaFan334]

Not meant to be an excuse on my end either, just pointing out that playing the best teams and so many good offensive teams (more than most anyone), impacts the numbers some. Just my opinion that overall, the defense has been better in some areas and phases than others would admit (or believe). Not that the defense is where it needs to be or should be. But I also think some are expecting (at this point in the season) way more than a realistic fan should expect. And I think others are just flat out moving goalposts in their head thinking that UA should hold opponents to less than 55 points a game.

Personally, I don't really subscribe much to the Team A beat Team B so Bama should have found a way as well. I do agree that a team like Florida (or at least a dozen other teams) are a cut above Alabama. I also saw auburn. beat Florida just before the Gators destroyed Bama. And I haven't seen auburn win since, including losing to Bama at their place. To me, that doesn't change that UF would almost certainly beat Bama again if they played this Saturday in Coleman.

I get it, I do. But we gotta score 95 a game to win, that's gotta be unheard of. We gave up 57 in a half last night. I don't care who you play or how good they shoot, that's unreal. Quick search shows averages over the last few years for men's NCAA basketball have scored 71 points in a game and we almost gave that up in a Half.

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

I get it, I do. But we gotta score 95 a game to win, that's gotta be unheard of. We gave up 57 in a half last night. I don't care who you play or how good they shoot, that's unreal. Quick search shows averages over the last few years for men's NCAA basketball have scored 71 points in a game and we almost gave that up in a Half.

It's the downside of his system, especially when the defense isn't what it needs to be. They offer up so many possessions, then when an opposing team is hot, the scoreboard is going to get lit up. Thankfully, last night, Arkansas cooled off some and the UA defense performed much better in the 2nd half (and even OT). It certainly helped too that Bama shot it better in the 2nd half and kinda flipped the script on them. I get your point though.

 

[BamaFan334]

It's the downside of his system, especially when the defense isn't what it needs to be. They offer up so many possessions, then when an opposing team is hot, the scoreboard is going to get lit up. Thankfully, last night, Arkansas cooled off some and the UA defense performed much better in the 2nd half (and even OT). It certainly helped too that Bama shot it better in the 2nd half and kinda flipped the script on them. I get your point though.

I stopped watching for like 10 minutes, so I was happy folks here kept updating and I made sure to put down my computer for work and started watching again. Like you said, glad they cooled off.

 

[mando]

New defensive coach

Oats demanding excellence and showing in by his actions instead of just talking about it.

 

[Bammerboy321]

Let's talk defense for a minute. Yes, this team struggles on defense. I agree with others that Adams needs to go and Oats needs to find a more "proven" replacement. But, Oats also needs to find more guys that can play good defense... players that are physically built for it while also matching his system and find players that are willing (and even eager) to play good defense (Oats suggested in the fall that Hannah fit this mold for example). If you have to remind the same few players every 3 days how important it is and keep lighting fires under them, then you either have the wrong guys or you you're not preparing them properly. Oats has said many, many times in the past how much he values defense, and the fact that good defensive play only amplifies his offensive efficiency and output, it makes sense that it isn't just lip service. We also know that Oats can put a top defense on the floor, having done so in '21 and in '23 when UA had the #3 defense (Kenpom).

But, what we also know, is at this point in this season, much like last season, we are not going to see that type of high level play on the defensive end. For spurts, yes. But not consistently from tip to horn, game to game, week to week. They'll just have to overcome it other ways and see how far their other intangibles can carry them (last year, it was still pretty far).

Lastly, and this is really the reason for the post... while the defense isn't top 10 (it's actually 64th at the moment), it isn't complete trash either. It's bad by the standards that Oats wants it, and we want it, but at times they do step up. Last night in the 2nd half, they stepped up. IMO, they are not good enough on that end for a final 4 run... sweet 16 feels like the ceiling for this team and it will take stong play from the guards to even get them to that point, but Oats and his teams have found magic in March/April before so I won't write them off. I will say, I think some fans are being a bit too unrealistic about what they are wanting on the defensive end. And if you're basing the quality of the defense solely on total points given up, and I know some fans are, then you are on the wrong path and being unfair to the defense from the start.

There's truth to this.

Sherrell's issues are rarely an effort thing. He is just limited athletically. He doesn't have the physicality nor the vertical to really challenge the opposition at the rim. Also, the drop coverage in general is just garbage schematically in the college game. I wonder if others have a different opinion on it. Regardless - just like when we only had Pringle - you're going to have issues protecting the paint.

I don't know what to tell with Bol Bowen. I don't know if we can blame it all on injuries but Oats highlighted his leg being a problem. Still, even when healthy, that man plays soft. Even on offense, he wants to be a pull up jump shooter. He routinely gets out muscled for rebounds, loses his man, offers no help defense, and plays lazy. Unfortunately a huge whiff by the staff. Bristow looked like a high motor type forward, but I still don't think he was overly physical either. The staff needs to emphasize stronger bodies going forward.

There are fixable issues IMO that have persisted for far too long. For one, Alabama's transition defense is absolutely nonexistent. Arkansas, A&M, Vanderbilt, Gonzaga, Arizona and Florida all greatly exposed how lazy Alabama is getting back in transition. The Florida game was such an eye sore to rewatch, but it just highlights how poorly Alabama's efforts are to get back. I can take getting beat one on one, or a spectacular player getting to the basket (Acuff showed out last night). But when you have multiple Alabama players jogging back after a turnover, or letting bad shots dictate your effort, that's just inexcusable. I think Allen and Mallette are the only two I've seen all year really sprint back and not give up.

Minus spurts of poor effort and communication, what drives me insane is Alabama simply does not box out. They are caught ball watching the entire time. That last shot by Arkansas was nearly a perfect play because the put back was right there. Coaching issue unfortunately. The other thing is poor help and ball screen defense. We don't really hard hedge very much anyways - and I think some of that maybe due to personnel reasons. But there is a definite lack of intensity on D when it comes to applying pressure to mitigate the screen. There's also just a complete lack of awareness at times. Some of that's on the players but a lot on preparation from the coaches.

We can go further into other issues but I agree there are roster limitations that prevent the team from being above average. Like Aden Holloway is going to struggle on ball. But I do think with better coaching (and some of this is on Oats not being able to motivate his guys to play better) this team could be in the mid 40s. Doesn't sound like a big difference difference but it is.

None of this will get fixed this season. Oats is not a defensive minded coach, but he should be motivating his guys to play better on that end. For the techniques, that's on Brian Adams. He's has to go.

 

[Bammerboy321]

There's a ton to dissect with what's wrong with the defense. Hopefully the offense can continue to mask up the deficiencies. And who knows, maybe something sparks up the D. The Final Four squad actually started player a lot better come tournament time, and they were absolutely bullied throughout the regular season.

 

[alabama mike]

I would like to see us get back in transition, we are lazy coming down after we miss a shot.
I would like to see us play defense with our feet and not our hands. Move!
I would like to see us stop the ball/help on drives to the basket instead of standing and watching.
I would like to see us get a body on somebody/anybody when a shot goes up.

All of the above issues are fixable by drills in practice. If a player is not doing what they are supposed to be doing, sit them during the game, it is a great motivator, well before NIL. Speaking of NIL, money paid to athletes should not be paid until after the season is over.

Right now, Sherrill is far and away the best thing we have going for us at the 5. We all know Williamson has been a big time bust. Our freshman 5 man that is red shirting is not ready at this point, if he was, he would be playing. Until the defensive philosophy, defensive coach and some of our 4 & 5 recruits are changed, we will continue to see the defense we see.

 

[bamafan4ever]

Some of you robbed my joy with the paralysis by over analysis.

This was one game in February with #20 versus #25. In the larger scheme of things, it meant very little if we don't keep our foot to the pedal and lose to a LSU or something like that. That said, that was college basketball entertainment at its best! At least, it ranked right up there for me.

I have never enjoyed Alabama Basketball to the degree I have the past several years. Of course the season is long and there will be disappointments but damn, Wednesday night was FUN! That's my .02 and I think BAMA can make a run in March. Seeding will be everything.