📡 Alabama begins its search for their new basketball coach

[TerryP]

How Kentucky ever hired him is beyond me.

A&M's Sweet 16 run

 

[Max]

What I don't see here is something that's becoming of "the biggest Avery defender." What I do see is simply pointing out how some things fit, some things don't, and some are just knee jerk reactions.

What are your feelings now about CAJ?

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

A&M's Sweet 16 run

One.

One single run.

Not like his resume' was littered with Elite 8 and Final 4 appearances, something a legacy program like Kentucky would require (you'd think).

 

[TerryP]

@Sgt. Lincoln Osiris, Do you remember what UTEP basketball was like before A&M hired Gillespie? I don't. I remember he was hired from UTEP after a NCAA appearance for the Miners. I want to say his record at A&M was NIT, 2nd round exit, and then the Sweet 16. It's been awhile so I'm not too sure about that.

 

[TerryP]

What are your feelings now about CAJ?

This is getting into something I don't feel real comfortable posting about considering a few factors including the 'hard ball' being played between two different party's right now. As clearly as I know how to say this it comes from "between you and I" conversations on "this is what I've learned"

Pardon the use of an analogy but it literally fits. It's only a few side stories that change.

Back at the end '05 and into '06 Coach Moore had conversations with Shula about the program. As we all we know now, there were suggestions/directives on what he needed to do with the program including staff changes. And, as we all well remember, Shula refused to make those changes.

I'm of the opinion if an athletic director has a meeting with a coach and he's telling him this is what needs to be changed there's an issue. I'm also of the belief if he refuses to make those changes he's written the end of his own story.

I'm well aware this is a vague answer. I'm also well aware you are smart enough to put two and two together and see the meaning of this modern day parable of sorts. Read into this as much as you'd like, or as little as you'd like.

 

[JoshB]

Biggest Avery supporter, eh?

I can recall what I've said about Avery as clearly as one can. I've maintained the same stance for months now.

◘ Last year every complained about the offense. This season we saw improvement in the offense (up to a point and then it stopped.)
◘ People have pointed to turnovers and missed free throws as the reasons Bama has lost. I've said they've won as many games with both categories being horrible as they have with both being good.
◘ I've stated I believe laying the blame at Avery's feet for fundamentals is misplaced. That goes much earlier on in a players development. While not citing time limitations as a factor, it's not something a college coach should have to focus on. It should be instilled in a player when they reach this level.
◘ Repeatedly, I've pointed to defensive efficiency being down, drastically, this season. Yet, that's a point going largely ignored. And, that a point of the game I'm certainly not defending.
◘ I've pointed to Hall's lack of leadership. Even he admitted such and then turns around and plays the next game in the same mind-frame. Is that on Avery or Hall? I'm picking the latter.

What I don't see here is something that's becoming of "the biggest Avery defender." What I do see is simply pointing out how some things fit, some things don't, and some are just knee jerk reactions.



Do I understand this to also mean you don't believe these elite coaches will consider Bama because it's not an elite program? It's one destined for mediocrity? So, going after an elite coach is just a waste of time and effort? If that's the case why worry about who the next coach will be?

It's confusing trying to get a read on what fans want. I'm seeing a lot of fans set limits on who or what Bama can be. That a sure recipe for remaining right where Bama is today, right?

You made my point for me. All the excuses is you being one of his bigger defenders. I mean saying things like constant turnovers and mistakes being something that you can't blame Avery for and instead is somehow on high school or youth coaches (or whatever you are trying to imply) is one of the more mind boggling things I've ever heard. I'm sure there are plenty of coaches at both the college and the NBA that had as many people that would gladly point the figure at previous coaches (at lesser levels) as being the problem, not them. Unreal.

And you really jumped off the ledge with the stuff about being destined for mediocrity. Nowhere did I say you shouldn't go after an elite coach. Point to where I said that? You asked what I THINK. I said I dont think any elite coaches are going to be willing to come without you throwing the bank at them.

 

[TerryP]

You made my point for me. All the excuses is you being one of his bigger defenders. I mean saying things like constant turnovers and mistakes being something that you can't blame Avery for and instead is somehow on high school or youth coaches (or whatever you are trying to imply) is one of the more mind boggling things I've ever heard. I'm sure there are plenty of coaches at both the college and the NBA that had as many people that would gladly point the figure at previous coaches (at lesser levels) as being the problem, not them. Unreal.

Unreal is right. In what world is an observation an excuse?

I didn't say turnovers and mistakes were something you can't blame Avery for. I said you can't use it as an "in all, be all" every time a team loses. That's an observation gleaned from looking at what has happened. This season the ten games with the worst turnover margins: 6-4. This season the ten games with the best turnover margin. 5-5. I also pointed to FT as that all encompassing reason Bama was losing the game they were.

Fundamentals start at an early age. They are not taught when a kid is 18 years old and playing collegiate ball. Because you can point to members of the team having poor fundamentals while coached by Avery, you can not say it's Avery's fault they have poor fundamentals. You're talking about a few years out of what? 12 to 15 years these kids have been playing?

Are you going to blame a college baseball coach for a short stop not being able to field a hard grounder? No. You're going back to his youth league and how he was coached then.

Are you going to fault an offensive coordinator because a quarterback has bad footwork when he's passing? No. That's going back to his days playing in youth leagues.

But, we're going to blame a college coach for poor fundamentals when that's something that should have been taught at a very early age? That is unreal,

And you really jumped off the ledge with the stuff about being destined for mediocrity. Nowhere did I say you shouldn't go after an elite coach. Point to where I said that? You asked what I THINK. I said I dont think any elite coaches are going to be willing to come without you throwing the bank at them

I'm assuming the question marks threw you here?

Do I understand this to also mean you don't believe these elite coaches will consider Bama because it's not an elite program?
It's one destined for mediocrity?
So, going after an elite coach is just a waste of time and effort? If that's the case why worry about who the next coach will be?

Again, asked.

 

[JoshB]

Unreal is right. In what world is an observation an excuse?

I didn't say turnovers and mistakes were something you can't blame Avery for. I said you can't use it as an "in all, be all" every time a team loses. That's an observation gleaned from looking at what has happened. This season the ten games with the worst turnover margins: 6-4. This season the ten games with the best turnover margin. 5-5. I also pointed to FT as that all encompassing reason Bama was losing the game they were.

Fundamentals start at an early age. They are not taught when a kid is 18 years old and playing collegiate ball. Because you can point to members of the team having poor fundamentals while coached by Avery, you can not say it's Avery's fault they have poor fundamentals. You're talking about a few years out of what? 12 to 15 years these kids have been playing?

Are you going to blame a college baseball coach for a short stop not being able to field a hard grounder? No. You're going back to his youth league and how he was coached then.

Are you going to fault an offensive coordinator because a quarterback has bad footwork when he's passing? No. That's going back to his days playing in youth leagues.

But, we're going to blame a college coach for poor fundamentals when that's something that should have been taught at a very early age? That is unreal,



I'm assuming the question marks threw you here?




Again, asked.

Yes... yes I am going to blame his college coach for that. No. 1, its his fault for recruiting players that are horrendous in terms of mistakes and turnovers or No. 2, it's his fault for doing absolutely NOTHING to correct those issues. Or at least not doing anything that actually makes a difference... And your entire premise makes no sense because you claim "I'm not defending Avery for the players being mistake/turnover factories nor am I saying he doesn't deserve blame for that (even though in the very next graph you make more excuses for why its not his fault hilariously) but I'm saying it's not the only reason for the losses" when absolutely no one has suggested that. It's a straw man. In fact it's a perfect example of a straw man.

You keep throwing out all these examples, like a QB with bad foot work, as how somehow proving you don't blame the college coach. Dude, if we had a QB (let alone a junior or senior) that had shit footwork and was still making dumb mistakes, you best believe 99% of the fan base would be looking right at the OC/QB Coach. You really should pick another hill to die on.

Your questions...
Yes but money will make them consider it.
Its only destined for mediocrity if the same things continue to be repeated.
Didn't say that. Pretty much the exact opposite.

 

[TerryP]

I'm saying it's not the only reason for the losses" when absolutely no one has suggested that. It's a straw man. In fact it's a perfect example of a straw man.

If that's your opinion you've not been following fan reactions that much this season, or last it would appear.

 

[Bama News]

Rick Pitino Named Potential Option For The Alabama Basketball Job

The Alabama basketball program is in search of a new head coach. After falling to Norfolk State in the first round of the NIT, Alabama and head coach Avery

thespun.com

The Alabama basketball program is in search of a new head coach. After falling to Norfolk State in the first round of the NIT, Alabama and head coach Avery Johnson reportedly entered into a buyout negotiation.

AL.com suggested a name that would be a controversial hire for the program. Joseph Goodman of AL.com suggested Alabama athletic director Greg Byrne needs to take a look at Rick Pitino.

The former Louisville head coach is currently coaching in Greece, but was reportedly a candidate for the UCLA opening.

After getting fired from Louisville in the wake of the bombshell case that linked bribes by Adidas to Louisville basketball recruits, fans might not love the idea of Pitino in Tuscaloosa.

People will overreact to that idea, of course, and fake outrage on Twitter because that’s what we do now, but Pitino is, arguably, one of the three greatest college basketball coaches alive, and he’s currently not coaching college basketball.

Pitino led two different teams to NCAA Championships – though one has been vacated.

Pairing Pitino and Nick Saban, Alabama would sport two of the best coaches in college basketball and football history.


The only question is: will Greg Byrnes go after Pitino?

 

[bradenob]

Back to the original question. Overall, despite any distaste, I would have Sampson over Pitino and Prohm. I like Hoilberf 2nd and Prohm 3rd. Sampson has won everywhere he has gone. He knows better now, I hope. He can recruit.

Pitino it still an unknown regarding NCAA outcome. He would be a great name, and he knows his stuff, but the guy is old. therefore, all that said, he would be down the list for me.

Hoilberg is a big name because of college success and coaching in the pros. I think he would do a great job here.

Prohm would be a great hire, in my opinion, no doubt. But I would put him third.

 

[252BAMA]

@Sgt. Lincoln Osiris, Do you remember what UTEP basketball was like before A&M hired Gillespie? I don't. I remember he was hired from UTEP after a NCAA appearance for the Miners. I want to say his record at A&M was NIT, 2nd round exit, and then the Sweet 16. It's been awhile so I'm not too sure about that.

His problem at kentucky, and perhaps elsewhere, was alcohol. It is said he has conquered that. He is a good coach.

 

[rick4bama]

Rick Pitino Named Potential Option For The Alabama Basketball Job? I do know he been in hot water with the NCAA a lot.

 

[JoseyWalesTheOutlaw]

No way will the U of A hire Rick Pitino. He has more baggage than Samsonite.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

@TerryP, I've seen you mention multiple times the last few posts that "fundamentals are not taught at 18 years old", alleging that it's not a college coach's responsibility to focus on fundamentals.

And as a former college basketball player, I HAVE to respectfully disagree. If all you do is install and scrimmage, are you REALLY coaching?

NO.

I guaran-damn-tee you if all we ran was 3 offensive sets, a basic zone and a basic man defense, with a full-court press and a press break, that's only around 20-30 minutes of practice time. You implement situational scrimmage within those drills, and that's maybe 30-45 mins. 15 minutes of conditioning, and an entire HALF HOUR on fundamentals. Hell, do fundamentals at the START of practice as warmups. FUCK the standard layup lines and 3-man drills.

I also guarantee that if THAT is all we did, and dumbed down our offense and defense (giving them less to think about) and focused on JUST fundamentals for a solid half hour, Avery would be at WORST a 4-seed in the NCAA tournament, with 22-25 wins.

Basic philosophy of coaching: YOU DRILL IT TILL THEY GET IT. Then you KEEP drilling it so they don't forget it.

This is even MORE important nowadays, where everything is instant from social media, technology, etc... Makes kids even MORE lazy. And we saw LAZINESS all season long. You REALLY expect an 18-20 year old kid, in TODAY'S world, to be a self-motivator that rehearses fundamentals on his own time?

Hell. No.

You mentioned baseball and fielding grounders. They do that EVERY day for warmups at the start of practice, at every level. You really think some of the Greats like Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, etc would've held their jobs for long if the fans continued to see sloppy play, grounders consistently wiffing thru infielders' feet?

Come on, bro. I love your optimism. But take a look at the whole forest here.

 

[BAMANEWSBOT]

There are logical coaching choices for Alabama and then there’s Rick Pitino

Greg Byrne and his search committee should ask themselves this simple question when they begin interviewing candidates.

www.al.com

The damning losses started piling up for Avery Johnson long before Alabama’s dreadful end to the season on Wednesday.

One of them was off the court.

Five-star recruit Trendon Watford of Mountain Brook stopped seriously considering Alabama during the middle of the season because, I have been told, of Johnson’s inability to establish a winning culture inside Alabama’s locker room. In the end, Johnson’s players stopped believing in their coach, and that toxic poison permeated through every aspect of the program.

It didn’t take a loss to Norfolk State to know it was over for Johnson at Alabama. His buyout has made things a little tricky for athletics director Greg Byrne here in the end, though. When Johnson signed his extension last year, a cutoff date for his buyout was inserted into the contract. His buyout drops from $8 million to $6 million after April 15, according to a source with direct knowledge of the contract, and Johnson is now negotiating with the university to receive $6 million up front to walk away.

The contract calls for a buyout of $1.5 million per year for four years after April 15. Waiting until after April 15 isn’t an option for Alabama, so Johnson has some leverage.

After Alabama pays Johnson a lump sum of $6 million, Bryne can then begin in earnest the process of searching for a new basketball coach. There are some excellent basketball coaches out there who could, maybe, if given a few years, solve this riddle of basketball mediocrity in Tuscaloosa. Steve Prohm, who is currently at Iowa State, is the most popular name out of the gate to succeed Johnson. Fred Hoiberg is being mentioned. Kelvin Sampson at Houston is, too.

Prohm is an Alabama graduate with roots to Alabama basketball. Hoiberg had success at Iowa State and then coached the Chicago Bulls for two seasons before being fired after a poor start to this season. Sampson, now at Houston, has won everywhere he has been.

Want another name? Former Ole Miss coach Andy Kennedy has emerged as a possible fall-back option. It is indeed a brave new world for Alabama if one of Gene Bartow’s former star players at UAB is even being considered.

These coaches would all be acceptable hires, sure, but they wouldn’t make much of a national splash. Instead of a safe hire, maybe a coach deemed unacceptable at the moment should be given some consideration by Byrne and his search committee.

Byrne should reach out to Rick Pitino when he starts contacting potential candidates. It’s at least worth a phone call or lunch at the Final Four.

People will overreact to that idea, of course, and fake outrage on Twitter because that’s what we do now, but Pitino is, arguably, one of the three greatest college basketball coaches alive, and he’s currently not coaching college basketball.

Is Pitino unhirable for Alabama? Probably so, and for more reasons than one, but he wasn’t arrested by the FBI after its investigation into college basketball corruption, and there currently isn’t a show cause against Pitino by the NCAA. Maybe one is coming, but Pitino has vehemently maintained his innocence.

Pitino was fired by Louisville in the wake of the bombshell case that linked bribes by Adidas to Louisville basketball recruits, but a member of the Alabama basketball team was linked to that investigation and Avery Johnson wasn’t fired. Auburn assistant coach Chuck Person just pled guilty in federal court, but Bruce Pearl wasn’t fired.

It’s a low bar in college basketball, is all I’m saying, and if you can win a national championship the bar doesn’t really exist at all.

Auburn hired Pearl while Pearl was still under a show cause. The gamble paid off for Auburn, and the Tigers are now selling out Auburn Arena and winning championships. Sampson, a rumored early candidate for Alabama, was out of the game for five years under a show cause.

Byrne and his search committee should ask themselves this simple question when they begin interviewing candidates: can this coach win a national championship at Alabama? That’s a short list, but Pitino is on it.

Would SEC commissioner Greg Sankey prevent Alabama from hiring Pitino? Not likely. Pitino would be an enormous draw for the conference. Would the NCAA slap a show cause on Pitino if he tried to return to college coaching? For Bryne, it might be worth finding out.

With Pitino, Alabama would instantly, overnight, go from a backwater basketball outpost to a marquee program and destination for big-time recruits. Maybe Prohm or Hoiberg or Sampson could establish teams that could make a few runs to the Sweet 16. Pitino would give Alabama its first legitimate chance in program history to win a national championship.

With Nick Saban coaching football and Pitino in Coleman Coliseum, Alabama would be the center of the universe for collegiate athletics. And Byrne would have no problem raising money for that new basketball arena he wants.

He also wouldn’t have any problem getting blue-chip players like Watford to Alabama. Right now, it’s hard to imagine any current college coach who would consider Alabama being able to do that.

 

[JoseyWalesTheOutlaw]

Saw this on the rant

quote:
Cecil Hurt
? @CecilHurt

Hearing that Alabama and basketball coach Avery Johnson have come to terms on a buyout agreement.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

So. The value at bama be winning above all else. Thats AU stuff.... Pitino has stains that belong elsewhere , not at the great University of Alabama
A competitive program can be developed
Not a lot going to beat the doors down to come to a place that accepts mediocrity as the norm

 

[TUSKtimes]

Without a show-cause penalty hanging around his neck, Bruce Pearl doesn't give the barners the time of day. So, it's been done.

 

[Bama News]

At the moment, Alabama basketball coaching searches come around like presidential elections, once every four years. According to the Founding Fathers, that’s great. According to anyone charged with building a basketball program on a solid foundation, it’s not so great.

What athletic director Greg Byrne will have to do, if he can, is find a coach that will break that cycle, finding someone the fan base isn’t ready to vote out of office in 2023.

That’s all pending the announcement that the buyout negotiations with Avery Johnson are complete. Nothing is finished until it is finished, but sources close to the situation told The Tuscaloosa News on Saturday that there was “optimism” that an agreement could be announced as soon as Sunday.

For most Alabama fans, that means thanking Johnson for his service and his work at rekindling interest in the program and moving on to “Next Man Up.”

Does that mean a coach with a past track record, like a Rick Pitino? (Say what you want about Pitino, the man does have a track record, regardless of how you interpret that phase?) Do you swing for the fences and call a Billy Donovan in Oklahoma City, knowing before you dial the first digit that the chances are he’s going to leave an NBA playoff contender to take a college job that’s not as good as the college job he left to go to the NBA in the first place?

Do you go for another veteran looking to get back in the game, a Fred Hoiberg or Thad Matta? Do you go the alumni route with Iowa State’s Steve Prohm? Do you try to raise enough money (see above under “buyout”) to convince a major college coach with a good gig to move? That’s a hard thing to do in college football or basketball, unless you are talking a Jimbo Fisher compensation package? Do you play what is, for want of a better term, Mid-Major Roulette?

Are there any guarantees with “the guy at Buffalo” (Nate Oats) or “the guy at Wofford” (Mike Young) or “the guy at Liberty” (Ritchie McKay)? Would they adjust well to the SEC, or would there be a learning curve and a chance of being in the same boat four years from now?

Byrne does have a track record for making swift, decisive hires, both at Alabama (baseball coach Brad Bohannon) and at his previous jobs at Arizona and Mississippi State. He will probably play his cards close to the vest, with no long public courtship like the Alabama/Gregg Marshall negotiations four years ago. He won’t take the easy route if he thinks another course is better, at least judging from his decision to bypass Ron Polk’schosen successor for the baseball job at MSU to hire John Cohen instead.

Aiming high sometimes means you miss. Alabama fans don’t like to hear it but some candidates may be happy where they are. But Byrne doesn’t seem like a defeatist, and I don’t think he will sell the potential for Alabama basketball short as he looks to find the man to break the four-year cycle.

https://www.tidesports.com/cecil-hurt-search-on-for-alabama-basketball-coach-to-break-four-year-cycle/