🏈 Why do we claim 1941 as a championship year?

[PhillyGirl]

The bottom line is that Houlgate claimed Bama as national champs in 1941. Central Fla claimed themselves as champs in 2017 which is even more BS since there is now a playoff. And.. they ucf were NOT in it.

And the bottom line is that another poll system, the Colley Matrix (a former BCS computer), claimed UCF as national champs in 2017.

Why does Bama have more of a claim to 1941 based on one poll method and UCF does not have an equal claim to 2017 based on another poll method?

Building off of this, there are several programs who DO claim national titles based on just being ranked #1 in one poll (just like Bama and UCF have done): Ohio State in 1970, Texas A&M in 1927, Kentucky in 1950, USC in 1939, etc. Nobody questions those.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

The bottom line is that Houlgate claimed Bama as national champs in 1941. Central Fla claimed themselves as champs in 2017 which is even more BS since there is now a playoff. And.. they ucf were NOT in it.

And the bottom line is that another poll system, the Colley Matrix (a former BCS computer), claimed UCF as national champs in 2017.

Why does Bama have more of a claim to 1941 based on one poll method and UCF does not have an equal claim to 2017 based on another poll method?

Building off of this, there are several programs who DO claim national titles based on just being ranked #1 in one poll (just like Bama and UCF have done): Ohio State in 1970, Texas A&M in 1927, Kentucky in 1950, USC in 1939, etc. Nobody questions those.

Sure they are questioned..but in final analysis...it just doesnt matter...andu could have added plenty more to ur list... it college football...its just part of what makes CF different....no true champion.....till now and playoffs...oooops forgot about UCF and 2017....dang

 

[TerryP]

Q: You meet a member of the '41 team. Are you going to tell him it's your opinion he's not part of a national championship team?

 

[PhillyGirl]

Q: You meet a member of the '41 team. Are you going to tell him it's your opinion he's not part of a national championship team?

A player from the 1941 team .. who did not win a championship when he played? The guy would've been in his 60s by the time Bama decided to jack up their numbers in the 1980s. Is an old hardass football player from the Greatest Generation gonna suddenly retroactively claim what amounts to a participation trophy for a season where 99% of the polls said he wasn't part of the best team? A season where his team finished 8-2 in the regular season and at #20 in the AP poll? I am curious if we've ever even honored them at a game (obviously a fair amount are dead now, but what about from the 1980s onward?). I am really curious what that squad thinks/thought of this retroactive claim.

To go off of your question though, let's continue that logic. It's been 77 years since 1941, correct? 2018 + 77 years = 2095. Picture it: it's 2095 today.

Q: You meet a member of the '17 UCF team. Are you going to tell him it's your opinion he's not part of a national championship team?

Again, I ask why the 2017 UCF and 1941 Bama teams are really all that different. Minnesota in 1941 were declared champions by .. well, pretty much everyone (that mattered) BUT the Houlgate. Texas was actually declared champions by two poll systems .. yet they don't claim 1941, despite having more of a claim than Bama. Alabama in the 17-18 season was declared champions by .. well, pretty much everyone BUT the Colley.

Really, the key difference is that Bama decided to boost its championship numbers 40+ years later and claim a championship one system (one man's poll figures) gave them, versus UCF claiming the championship straight off the bat based on a championship one system (one computer's poll figures) gave them PLUS an undefeated season and dubious non-invite to the CFP. In both situations, the claims the titles are dubious but they fit the narrative each team wants (Alabama wanted to increase title numbers in the 1980s, and UCF wanted to validate its undefeated season).

Just my opinion, but I feel that if you wanna claim Bama's 1941 title claim is legitimate, you can't moan about UCF's 2017 title claim/share.

 

[TUSKtimes]

And the bottom line is that another poll system, the Colley Matrix (a former BCS computer), claimed UCF as national champs in 2017.

Why does Bama have more of a claim to 1941 based on one poll method and UCF does not have an equal claim to 2017 based on another poll method?

Building off of this, there are several programs who DO claim national titles based on just being ranked #1 in one poll (just like Bama and UCF have done): Ohio State in 1970, Texas A&M in 1927, Kentucky in 1950, USC in 1939, etc. Nobody questions those.

Don't think anyone is trying to stop UCF from making all the claims they want. Don't think college football is in any hurry to stop ridiculing them for their effort. This is the age of social media so brace up. There's nothing retro about their claim, they are doing it in real time and under a different set of circumstances entirely. So, there will always be plenty of rebuttals, not just from Alabama. My guess is the more time goes by, the sillier it will look.

The barn had their source that they relied on for their NC in 2005 and Golf Digest came through for them. As far as I know, no one has tried to take that away. I will have to say that where I live we are surrounded by the scourge of orange and blue and I just don't hear much about Golf Digest.

Which brings me to this Colley Matrix thing. The BCS is dying a hard death. The most accurate way I think I've heard that computer data explained is that it's like shooting off a rocket without a guiding system. It will go, but where?

The method does not care who a team loses to in ranking them. It considers the win-loss record of each team and the number of games played between each pair of teams. However, the specifics of who won each game are not an input to Colley’s method. Based on that staying undefeated is gonna be the greatest reward. I liked Golf Digest better.

The playoff will go on and in time so will all of us. But for now, it is the offseason.

 

[TerryP]

Q: You meet a member of the '41 team. Are you going to tell him it's your opinion he's not part of a national championship team?

A player from the 1941 team .. who did not win a championship when he played? The guy would've been in his 60s by the time Bama decided to jack up their numbers in the 1980s. Is an old hardass football player from the Greatest Generation gonna suddenly retroactively claim what amounts to a participation trophy for a season where 99% of the polls said he wasn't part of the best team? A season where his team finished 8-2 in the regular season and at #20 in the AP poll? I am curious if we've ever even honored them at a game (obviously a fair amount are dead now, but what about from the 1980s onward?). I am really curious what that squad thinks/thought of this retroactive claim.

To go off of your question though, let's continue that logic. It's been 77 years since 1941, correct? 2018 + 77 years = 2095. Picture it: it's 2095 today.

Q: You meet a member of the '17 UCF team. Are you going to tell him it's your opinion he's not part of a national championship team?

Again, I ask why the 2017 UCF and 1941 Bama teams are really all that different. Minnesota in 1941 were declared champions by .. well, pretty much everyone (that mattered) BUT the Houlgate. Texas was actually declared champions by two poll systems .. yet they don't claim 1941, despite having more of a claim than Bama. Alabama in the 17-18 season was declared champions by .. well, pretty much everyone BUT the Colley.

Really, the key difference is that Bama decided to boost its championship numbers 40+ years later and claim a championship one system (one man's poll figures) gave them, versus UCF claiming the championship straight off the bat based on a championship one system (one computer's poll figures) gave them PLUS an undefeated season and dubious non-invite to the CFP. In both situations, the claims the titles are dubious but they fit the narrative each team wants (Alabama wanted to increase title numbers in the 1980s, and UCF wanted to validate its undefeated season).

Just my opinion, but I feel that if you wanna claim Bama's 1941 title claim is legitimate, you can't moan about UCF's 2017 title claim/share.

Did ya answer the question?

 

[colbyjacks]

Was there a system in 1941? Is there a system now? There is your difference between the 1941 Bama team and the 2017 UCF team.

 

[XXL TideFan]

If Bama claiming a title pisses off another fan base, team, or talking head....that's awesome

 

[50+yeartidefan]

O law....a topic that needs shredding......
Goodbye...1941 topic...

 

[Tidestalker]

Q: You meet a member of the '41 team. Are you going to tell him it's your opinion he's not part of a national championship team?

A player from the 1941 team .. who did not win a championship when he played? The guy would've been in his 60s by the time Bama decided to jack up their numbers in the 1980s. Is an old hardass football player from the Greatest Generation gonna suddenly retroactively claim what amounts to a participation trophy for a season where 99% of the polls said he wasn't part of the best team? A season where his team finished 8-2 in the regular season and at #20 in the AP poll? I am curious if we've ever even honored them at a game (obviously a fair amount are dead now, but what about from the 1980s onward?). I am really curious what that squad thinks/thought of this retroactive claim.

To go off of your question though, let's continue that logic. It's been 77 years since 1941, correct? 2018 + 77 years = 2095. Picture it: it's 2095 today.

Q: You meet a member of the '17 UCF team. Are you going to tell him it's your opinion he's not part of a national championship team?

Again, I ask why the 2017 UCF and 1941 Bama teams are really all that different. Minnesota in 1941 were declared champions by .. well, pretty much everyone (that mattered) BUT the Houlgate. Texas was actually declared champions by two poll systems .. yet they don't claim 1941, despite having more of a claim than Bama. Alabama in the 17-18 season was declared champions by .. well, pretty much everyone BUT the Colley.

Really, the key difference is that Bama decided to boost its championship numbers 40+ years later and claim a championship one system (one man's poll figures) gave them, versus UCF claiming the championship straight off the bat based on a championship one system (one computer's poll figures) gave them PLUS an undefeated season and dubious non-invite to the CFP. In both situations, the claims the titles are dubious but they fit the narrative each team wants (Alabama wanted to increase title numbers in the 1980s, and UCF wanted to validate its undefeated season).

Just my opinion, but I feel that if you wanna claim Bama's 1941 title claim is legitimate, you can't moan about UCF's 2017 title claim/share.

Daaaamn! Well said