🏈 Well here's @AlabamaFTBL Freshman DL Jaheim Oatis taking out 4 offensive lineman...

[RTB X Bot]

 

[mando]

That boy is a grown man. He collapsed the line so much that it opened up a running lane for the RB. Young (47) stunted across and it looked like he was in his gap but with the collapse it opened up another gap.

 

[Rolltide24]

He’s a beast. But the RB still got 3-4 yards from the look of it. The LB’s should be licking their chops when he’s occupying so many guys.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

He’s a beast. But the RB still got 3-4 yards from the look of it. The LB’s should be licking their chops when he’s occupying so many guys.

YEP. I keep saying this & I"ll keep saying that our ILB play has been average for some time. Hopefully it will change this year. I'm not hopeful.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

That boy is a grown man. He collapsed the line so much that it opened up a running lane for the RB. Young (47) stunted across and it looked like he was in his gap but with the collapse it opened up another gap.

Yeah, it looked like a delayed twist (or Young was slow and got engaged) and was designed for Oatis (my man!) to domino the left side. The R pulling guard was swept up, too. Their LT almost got rolled up. We always think of OL as delivering the blow, but when the worm turns they take some hellacious shots.

 

[Justneedme81]

He’s a beast. But the RB still got 3-4 yards from the look of it. The LB’s should be licking their chops when he’s occupying so many guys.

Actually, The LB did their job. Read the gap, and go after. If Henry had went up the gap and missed, it would've been more than 4 yards. So everyone did their job.

 

[BamaFan334]

He’s a beast. But the RB still got 3-4 yards from the look of it. The LB’s should be licking their chops when he’s occupying so many guys.

Young clearly got in the way of To'oto'to, so how is he supposed to make a tackle at the line of scrimmage with a 300 pound teammate in the way that gets juked?

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

Actually, The LB did their job. Read the gap, and go after. If Henry had went up the gap and missed, it would've been more than 4 yards. So everyone did their job.

This is dumbfounding to me. The plays aren't being called out of a fear of a player NOT doing his job. If he had read the right gap (still his job) & missed (his job to NOT miss) then what? That's adequate? Nah its not. If so, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

No ILB shouldn't be missing basic tackles especially when they are fed to him & they shouldn't be down the field at 4 yard gains at all. The defensive call is designed to have those ILB's fill the gaps at the LOS, not 4 yards later downfield. And the ILB should be able to tackle them at the LOS or make strong contact to shore up the runner long enough for help.

 

[BamaFan334]

This is dumbfounding to me. The plays aren't being called out of a fear of a player NOT doing his job. If he had read the right gap (still his job) & missed (his job to NOT miss) then what? That's adequate? Nah its not. If so, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

No ILB shouldn't be missing basic tackles especially when they are fed to him & they shouldn't be down the field at 4 yard gains at all. The defensive call is designed to have those ILB's fill the gaps at the LOS, not 4 yards later downfield. And the ILB should be able to tackle them at the LOS or make strong contact to shore up the runner long enough for help.

In this instance he's clearly working his gap and stepped up to make the tackle at the line of scrimmage, but his own defensive lineman steps in front and causes him to cut. Henry got the guy as quick as one could here. You must be talking overall, because he isn't running through his own 300 pound lineman.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

You must be talking overall, because he isn't running through his own 300 pound lineman.

To'o To'o would not push Young completely out of the play but he would have shored him up more to the right of the gap (Young overshoots his gap) if he would have hit the LOS faster. Then it would have been To'o To'o & Young BOTH meeting the RB at the LOS & that would have been a stone cold stop. He was slow as hell to the LOS. There should be a clear, fast contact to the LOS by To'o To'o. He waits too much for contact.

Any ILB that waits on contact is not going to have the force or momentum to STOP a charging RB. If he doesn't he will always be tackling from behind (just like To'o To'o was doing) & it will be a solid gain. This is what I see fundamentally wrong with #10.

 

[TerryP]

Great vision by the running back—a heck of a cutback.

 

[BamaFan334]

To'o To'o would not push Young completely out of the play but he would have shored him up more to the right of the gap (Young overshoots his gap) if he would have hit the LOS faster. Then it would have been To'o To'o & Young BOTH meeting the RB at the LOS & that would have been a stone cold stop. He was slow as hell to the LOS. There should be a clear, fast contact to the LOS by To'o To'o. He waits too much for contact.

Any ILB that waits on contact is not going to have the force or momentum to STOP a charging RB. If he doesn't he will always be tackling from behind (just like To'o To'o was doing) & it will be a solid gain. This is what I see fundamentally wrong with #10.

I don't agree with you at all in this instance. Like @TerryP says, the back had great vision, so he is likely making a move against Henry as well. To me this is more of a sure tackle move by Henry, not slamming up in the hole out of control and not squaring up on a guy. If he fired up in there Young takes him off his feet because in no way are both of Henry's feet planted and ready for impact if he's running up in that hole that quick. He was not blitzing. I'll take that two yard gain any day of the week considering another guy overshot his gap. How many times have we seen that happen or a linebacker overrun his gap and the opponent bust a big run? More times than I care to recall, and this was fine with me as a defensive guy considering what we have seen in the past and what could have happened.

On top of it, he's what, playing at 215 pounds? We aren't playing a 240 run stopper. We are playing a guy that can fill the hole, but also run in space if necessary. So if he falls sideways or backwards making a tackle on a run play, it's part of the game. I don't know very many guys that are stopping 220 pound backs in their tracks at the line of scrimmage, but also running with tight ends and running backs in the boundaries and middle as well.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

I don't agree with you at all in this instance. Like @TerryP says, the back had great vision, so he is likely making a move against Henry as well. To me this is more of a sure tackle move by Henry, not slamming up in the hole out of control and not squaring up on a guy. If he fired up in there Young takes him off his feet because in no way are both of Henry's feet planted and ready for impact if he's running up in that hole that quick. He was not blitzing. I'll take that two yard gain any day of the week considering another guy overshot his gap. How many times have we seen that happen or a linebacker overrun his gap and the opponent bust a big run? More times than I care to recall, and this was fine with me as a defensive guy considering what we have seen in the past and what could have happened.

On top of it, he's what, playing at 215 pounds? We aren't playing a 240 run stopper. We are playing a guy that can fill the hole, but also run in space if necessary. So if he falls sideways or backwards making a tackle on a run play, it's part of the game. I don't know very many guys that are stopping 220 pound backs in their tracks at the line of scrimmage, but also running with tight ends and running backs in the boundaries and middle as well.

Disagree with me all you want. NO ILB is taught to wait on contact. Period.

If he would have immediately filled his gap (that's not a blitz) strait ahead, Young would have been in position to fill the other gap better & the RB would've had nowhere to go, despite his vision.

Nakobe Dean, 6' 220lbs (To'o To'o 6'2" 225lb) did this consistently under Kirby Smart. Dude hit his gaps like a bat out of hell because he knew it was his job & he had enough faith in his team for them to their job.

I will happily eat my words on To'o To'o. Happily! But this simple play is a strong indicator for me that it will be much of the same.

 

[TerryP]

Young would have been in position to fill the other gap better

The way I'm seeing this is the following shows Young over-shooting his gap (black) which led to the RB's cutback(green.) In the second image you can see how HTT is set to meet their RB at the line.

 

[BamaFan334]

Disagree with me all you want. NO ILB is taught to wait on contact. Period.

If he would have immediately filled his gap (that's not a blitz) strait ahead, Young would have been in position to fill the other gap better & the RB would've had nowhere to go, despite his vision.

Nakobe Dean, 6' 220lbs (To'o To'o 6'2" 225lb) did this consistently under Kirby Smart. Dude hit his gaps like a bat out of hell because he knew it was his job & he had enough faith in his team for them to their job.

I will happily eat my words on To'o To'o. Happily! But this simple play is a strong indicator for me that it will be much of the same.

He didn't freaking wait. He's in the damn hole and the freaking back cut off his 300 pound teammate that jumped in his way. he stops that in the damn hole. You're blind as shit if you can't see that.

Nakobe Dean was the beneficiary of Jordan Davis taking up double teams every play that allowed him to shoot gaps. He was a good backer, but it's an easy position when you're allowed to shoot gaps due to another teammate every play. When a running back or quarterback only have one option after a lane is shut down I'd say the backer has a 100% chance of getting right. Makes life much easier, and that was their deal all year long.

You speak of this one play, yet refuse to acknowledge henry was ready to meet him in the hole and was blocked out of the play. Killer insight.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

@BamaFan334 Sir, refrain from cussing at me. I extended you the same courtesy & why you can't do the same is beyond me.

After you tried to make the point that a 215lb (220lb in the case w/ Dean) can't stop the run like the days of old 240lb ILBS could, I referenced Nakobe Dean as exhibit A as having done just that. Your commentary on Nakobe Dean with Jordan Davis is exactly the point I am making here with To'o To'o w/ Oatis. Nakobe hit the gaps downhill every time & was a great tackler. Why can't To'o To'o do the same when he is bigger & has a wider wingspan? I thought it would be obvious but you emphasized the point for me without even seeing it. Killer insight.

@TerryP the whole gap that you boxed up is the exact area that To'o To'o is assigned (I'm sure you know) & should be filling in immediately (I am not sure you know). He was late getting there. He covered it but he was late. As such Young blocked him off. Had he filled his gap faster, both he & Young would have met up with the RB together. However, his pause forced him to move around Young thus perpetuating the 2 yard gain before any contact was made with him. Had Battle not been there a split second after him, he would have been dragged another 2 yards because he tackles the hips like he was about to mount him.

To'o To'o is a good ILB but he's not great. Half of his tackles are after a 2 or 3 yard gain. That has NOT been the norm at Alabama for our great ILB. I don't like it. I've seen much better years before. If it is being called that way by Golding, I hope it stops.

 

[TerryP]

@TerryP the whole gap that you boxed up is the exact area that To'o To'o is assigned (I'm sure you know) & should be filling in immediately (I am not sure you know). He was late getting there. He covered it but he was late. As such Young blocked him off. Had he filled his gap faster, both he & Young would have met up with the RB together. However, his pause forced him to move around Young thus perpetuating the 2 yard gain before any contact was made with him. Had Battle not been there a split second after him, he would have been dragged another 2 yards because he tackles the hips like he was about to mount him

Black is the line of scrimmage. We're two seconds into the play at this point.

We're seeing the same thing with HTT's move to the right. Let's also note that coincides with their right guard pulling. As the play progresses you can see him hitting the B gap looking to get upfield. Ideally, he's taking on Battle. It certainly looks like the play could be going that direction. We see the pause as he sees the RB looking at hitting the A gap on the opposite side.

In the earlier picture you can see HTT has the gap covered. You're asserting HTT was going to be late; I don't see it that way. From his position, relative to the LOS, he may even have a step on their RB. This image is just after their RB makes his cutback. HTT is about a yard from the LOS, he's at least a yard and a half, maybe two, in their backfield.

Based on what I see here, if their RB continues with his first thought and hits that A gap on their right both players are meeting at the LOS. Does he get a couple of yards still? Probably. HTT isn't a run stuffing MIKE.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

Based on what I see here, if their RB continues with his first thought and hits that A gap on their right both players are meeting at the LOS. Does he get a couple of yards still? Probably. HTT isn't a run stuffing MIKE.

View attachment 21949

You & I are in 100% agreement. What I'd like to know is why isn't HTT a run stopping Mike? It's NOT about his size.

Part of Battle's job behind him is to back him & the other ILB in run support. Battle has gotten dang good at this. It's like HTT overthinks this too much. Do your primary assignment & trust your other guys. Maybe he couldn't do that at UT & he's trying to exercise the demons from playing there? But the defensive call was perfect, HTT knows the play. Hit his assignment hard & fast. Don't think & trust the play call & your teammates.

I realize I am being hyper critical but this is the sort of a thing that changes a play from 3rd & 3 compared to 3rd & 7. Great defenses know how to get there more often than not.

 

[BamaFan334]

@BamaFan334 Sir, refrain from cussing at me. I extended you the same courtesy & why you can't do the same is beyond me.

After you tried to make the point that a 215lb (220lb in the case w/ Dean) can't stop the run like the days of old 240lb ILBS could, I referenced Nakobe Dean as exhibit A as having done just that. Your commentary on Nakobe Dean with Jordan Davis is exactly the point I am making here with To'o To'o w/ Oatis. Nakobe hit the gaps downhill every time & was a great tackler. Why can't To'o To'o do the same when he is bigger & has a wider wingspan? I thought it would be obvious but you emphasized the point for me without even seeing it. Killer insight.

@TerryP the whole gap that you boxed up is the exact area that To'o To'o is assigned (I'm sure you know) & should be filling in immediately (I am not sure you know). He was late getting there. He covered it but he was late. As such Young blocked him off. Had he filled his gap faster, both he & Young would have met up with the RB together. However, his pause forced him to move around Young thus perpetuating the 2 yard gain before any contact was made with him. Had Battle not been there a split second after him, he would have been dragged another 2 yards because he tackles the hips like he was about to mount him.

To'o To'o is a good ILB but he's not great. Half of his tackles are after a 2 or 3 yard gain. That has NOT been the norm at Alabama for our great ILB. I don't like it. I've seen much better years before. If it is being called that way by Golding, I hope it stops.

Boo hoo about the one word of language while you're being critical of a guy that did his job. You focused on that out of everything that has been said??? Apparently there is a lot more beyond you at this point than one word. I would be more focused on your analysis of this football play rather than one word of bad language tossed into a football forum. You want to hurl insults and disapproval at a player of ours when it's plain as day he made the play as best as one could in that situation. You don't seem to grasp the concept that I wasn't saying Jordan Davis was in Dean's way, he was out of the way clearing a hole for Dean to plug. Young is in Henry's way, as Henry tries to plug that hole. There is video evidence and even still shots given to you and you still can't get your brain over the hurdle. He wasn't blitzing and his first step is forward. Gotta read a play, not just step into any hole that opens up. So what are you even talking about here? I'll leave it at this, if Saban didn't think he was doing a good job, he wouldn't be in there. It's as simple as that.

On a side note, Dean was a good tackler, no doubt. He also got opened up on by our passing game in the SEC Championship and even the National Championship when his buddy Davis wasn't much of a help to him. No one is perfect, and the fact you use him as an example has so many holes that could be pointed out, but there isn't enough time to go through every instance. Is there a reason Dean was a third round selection then if he's some sort of super linebacker like you think? He was the 7th linebacker taken, second from his own team. I personally think he should have gone earlier, but scouts are seeing something they didn't like at the value some of us thought. Georgia was good because their backers could roam and make plays. It wasn't due to them being better athletes or more talented players, it worked out that their line did a great job of stuffing the run and allowed their backers to run sideline to sideline untouched.

You and I tend to agree WAY more than we disagree, but we just won't here because you see him as failing this play when overall it was a very well read and processed play with an ending result that was as good as it could have been when you add game factors into it with 21 other guys running all over the field.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

@BamaFan334 one word? Really?

This is a forum that allows open & critical dialogue. Points are made & countered. Heck, that sort of thing is welcome here. Except when someone gets butthurt over a logical counter & then they start cursing like 5 grade school yard bully. And when you get called out for it, you try to minimize/disregard your disrespect as a matter of something that I can't comprehend or inability to analyze football. I'm not hurling insults you or anyone or cussing at you. I've said HTT was slow to the gap. It's my opinion. It's allowed. You can disagree. It's allowed.

What's not tolerated is your behavior when you are challenged. I am not going to tolerate it on this board & I wouldn't tolerate it if you said it to my face, like most folks on here wouldn't tolerate it.

Good day to you sir.