💬 Wanted to see what you guys think about this...ref forces wrestler to cut his hair or forfeit

[JoshB]

Let me point out that you have shifted your defense multiple times by first implying that people were "making up" the rules about wearing a cap to suddenly pretending like no one has mentioned whether he was wearing a cap before this happened (its been said NUMEROUS times, the reporter that was at the event was the first person to bring it up) and now suggesting that he was told he had to wear a cap or cut his hair (which is just blatantly false, he was told his cap wasn't sufficient, by the way told this on the mat rather than at weigh in like should have been done IF true). Now its just all about "clicks" supposedly.

Responding to the edit you made.

Shifting my defense? LOL, ok. I've been consistent with my comments - feel free to validate with my other posts in this thread.

What are the rules is what I've stated all along.

I posted something from the NYTimes that stated he was told the week prior to wear an appropriate cover as his hair was too long. My question was, did he wear an approved/appropriate cover? That hasn't been addressed from what I've seen.

Mike Frankel has added nothing to this story other than a tweet of his video. I shouldn't have to explain page clicks to you.

I've yet to understand why you get so personally invested in these stories and speak to people on the board like you do.

Ironic, maybe if someone explained to you how to "click on a page" you would know that "Mike Frankel has added nothing to this story other than a tweet of his video" is completely false.


And I didn't talk to you in a disrespectful manner for you to complain about "speaking to the people on the board like you do." You claimed to want to know the rules, I provided said rules. You completely ignored that. I know what you're doing, though, you're trying to play Devil's Advocate. I originally posted this story because I thought that with all of the things that we all dont agree on, this one is one that pretty much every single person on this board would agree is wrong.

 

[JoshB]

I had to ask an old friend that just so happens to be a wrestling coach with 25+ years experience. He even posted the NFHS rule on his Facebook page. The rules are cut and dried. They must be clean shaven, any sideburns can't come below and be exposed below the headgear, long hair, dreadlocks, etc must have a hair cover tucking their hair inside and underneath the headgear. Sadly, the rules are the rules.

We don't know what this reporters motive was, seems like @planomateo found out and linked that the referee supposedly met with the team and went over these rules the previous week. The reporter only seemed to bother to pull up the incident from the refs past that would make this racially motivated.

I went to a school that had a former military man as our principal. Hair couldn't touch the collar, no beards, could wear a stache, no earrings. Now, after 25 years as a teacher, I have seen the hair length go out the door, along with the beard/facial hair and earrings.
As far as my coachi went, we followed the state rule as far as all jewelry, no chains or earrigs and carried it one step further, you didn't wear the earrings in the fieldhouse. The rule still is enforced with no issues. As for hair, if it caused problems, seeing or even getting tackled by it, then we needed a trim. All hair was balled up and put inside the headgear.
Again, like @planomateo stated, it looks like he was given choices. My only questions are, was there a problem in previous matches that night and what happened to the "hair net" in earlier matches?

Dude, the rules aren't the issue. I'm struggling to understand how this isn't getting through here. The wrestler HAD A CAP to wear. The referee decided that cap wasn't good enough, despite the fact that he took no issue with it during weigh ins (which is the rule), and made this kid make that decision literally in two minutes (cut your hair or forfeit the match).

And I really dont know what you get at with this blaming the reporter stuff. What are you talking about? People that were at the match and that saw what happened initially started linking to the referee's past and after that the Yahoo reporter connected the dots. The initial reporter that videoed the whole deal said absolutely nothing about it (likely he didn't know).

 

[UAgrad93]

@BamaBoyJosh, your title says what do you think? I typed what I thought. I didn't go through all of the articles, back stories, etc. I gave my opinion. I'm not siding with anyone, so don't take it as if I am. Hell, I even asked where there problems in earlier matches? What happened to the head wear in the previous matches? I hate it for the kid that he had to make a rush decision like this and I applaud his coaches for arguing and defending him. Like I said, why was it NOT a problem had he wrestled earlier? I have been around refs and umpires that seemed to have an axe to grind with either a kid, a specific school, a d sometimes even a particular coach. Was there some history along those lines? Again, I have seen that shit firsthand!!! I scratched my share of men in stripes for that very reason.

 

[planomateo]

Let me be perfectly clear here, I'm not trying to defend the guy. I'm trying not to have an hard stance on either side right now while I wait to get more data. Still not clear to me why the ref did what he did. As I get older, I'm trying to not jump to conclusions quickly and allow facts to tell the story...it's not easy for me to wait to formulate my opinion.

My point is wait until the facts come out before everyone slams the guy. His one comment a few years ago is suddenly the reason he did what he did during the match which is yet to be proven. The articles in the huffingtonpost are weaving the story with the narrative that the ref is white and the wrestler is black. And...

I didn't ignore your comment about the rules, I read it but didn't respond.

Apparently the kid had a match earlier and was allowed to wrestle. Why? Refs are subjective, we complain about that every Saturday right? Is this why he was allowed to wrestle earlier, was it with a different ref?

Why did the coach allow this, why did the lady cutting his hair cut his hair? I mean hell, they are equally to blame here right? They know the rules, they know what was said. Why weren't they more visibly upset?

 

[JoshB]

I think the fact that he has already competed in previous bouts without incident would have had me standing up for what was mine. I realize some people panic or just fail to stand up for themselves but there is no way I get my hair cut under those circumstances. I let the dude know that I've passed inspection just fine under my current circumstances on other occasions and when he disqualifies me, I still come and get this delusional nitwit.

Where was this kid's coach?

By all accounts, the coach did argue this prior to the video. What's missing is what was said at the beginning of the match and what was discussed prior to the video.

It seems to me, he was given the below three choices. Let's be clear, nobody forced him to cut his hair.

1. Wear appropriate head cover.
2. Forfeit
3. Cut hair

It's still unclear to me what any of this has to do with racism. Page clicks baby!

He was wearing "appropriate head cover." What part about that don't you get?

Him being a piece of shit racist because of his prior history and the fact that he pulled this stunt, but by all means man, keep defending it.

Easy dude, I don't understand why you get so wrapped around the axle in these discussions. You're getting all spun up over some articles...perhaps you need to step away from the keyboard?

He reportedly said a racist word a few years ago. Perhaps it was a mistake, perhaps he's changed since, perhaps he's a racist. Who the hell am I to judge the guy, I don't know him...

I'm just trying to be level headed and rational here

Yes, he "reportedly" said by the word of multiple witnesses... Doesn't seem like hes changed a whole lot either...

And you're trying to play devils advocate, c

Let me be perfectly clear here, I'm not trying to defend the guy. I'm trying not to have an hard stance on either side right now while I wait to get more data. Still not clear to me why the ref did what he did. As I get older, I'm trying to not jump to conclusions quickly and allow facts to tell the story...it's not easy for me to wait to formulate my opinion.

My point is wait until the facts come out before everyone slams the guy. His one comment a few years ago is suddenly the reason he did what he did during the match which is yet to be proven. The articles in the huffingtonpost are weaving the story with the narrative that the ref is white and the wrestler is black. And...

I didn't ignore your comment about the rules, I read it but didn't respond.

Apparently the kid had a match earlier and was allowed to wrestle. Why? Refs are subjective, we complain about that every Saturday right? Is this why he was allowed to wrestle earlier, was it with a different ref?

Why did the coach allow this, why did the lady cutting his hair cut his hair? I mean hell, they are equally to blame here right? They know the rules, they know what was said. Why weren't they more visibly upset?

In my opinion every adult on hand is partially to blame for allowing that to go down, especially if the coach or anyone else on that side pressured him to go through with it (no evidence of that). The coach claims that he was arguing with the referee and the referee started the injury clock (which is 2 minutes I believe).

As far as his history goes, I know you want to try to say that it shouldn't matter. If this was a different situation and you had a guy with a history of burglary that just happened to be in the same vicinity of a burglary, holding items that match what were stolen, you would probably think "hey that dude is a thief, I bet he did it" wouldnt you? If he has had history of having issue with black people, I think it definitely matters.

Now, if it comes out that the kid's cap truly wasn't good enough then I will gladly admit that we jumped to conclusions a bit here, but even then the kids choice shouldnt be "forfeit or cut your hair right now." The choice should be go find a better cap, I guarantee you there is someone on that team or another that has a "proper" cap or then give them the option of cutting the hair instead of forfeit. For some reason this referee not only didnt have a problem with the cap during weigh ins when hes supposed to check for that stuff, along with beards and fingernails, but he also felt the need to completely bypass letting him find another cap. Regardless, something stinks with this guy.

And for multiple referees, Im sure its different for every state but every match I've been to this year there has been one referee working the matches itself.

 

[UAgrad93]

I think the fact that he has already competed in previous bouts without incident would have had me standing up for what was mine. I realize some people panic or just fail to stand up for themselves but there is no way I get my hair cut under those circumstances. I let the dude know that I've passed inspection just fine under my current circumstances on other occasions and when he disqualifies me, I still come and get this delusional nitwit.

Where was this kid's coach?

By all accounts, the coach did argue this prior to the video. What's missing is what was said at the beginning of the match and what was discussed prior to the video.

It seems to me, he was given the below three choices. Let's be clear, nobody forced him to cut his hair.

1. Wear appropriate head cover.
2. Forfeit
3. Cut hair

It's still unclear to me what any of this has to do with racism. Page clicks baby!

He was wearing "appropriate head cover." What part about that don't you get?

Him being a piece of shit racist because of his prior history and the fact that he pulled this stunt, but by all means man, keep defending it.

Easy dude, I don't understand why you get so wrapped around the axle in these discussions. You're getting all spun up over some articles...perhaps you need to step away from the keyboard?

He reportedly said a racist word a few years ago. Perhaps it was a mistake, perhaps he's changed since, perhaps he's a racist. Who the hell am I to judge the guy, I don't know him...

I'm just trying to be level headed and rational here

Yes, he "reportedly" said by the word of multiple witnesses... Doesn't seem like hes changed a whole lot either...

And you're trying to play devils advocate, c

Let me be perfectly clear here, I'm not trying to defend the guy. I'm trying not to have an hard stance on either side right now while I wait to get more data. Still not clear to me why the ref did what he did. As I get older, I'm trying to not jump to conclusions quickly and allow facts to tell the story...it's not easy for me to wait to formulate my opinion.

My point is wait until the facts come out before everyone slams the guy. His one comment a few years ago is suddenly the reason he did what he did during the match which is yet to be proven. The articles in the huffingtonpost are weaving the story with the narrative that the ref is white and the wrestler is black. And...

I didn't ignore your comment about the rules, I read it but didn't respond.

Apparently the kid had a match earlier and was allowed to wrestle. Why? Refs are subjective, we complain about that every Saturday right? Is this why he was allowed to wrestle earlier, was it with a different ref?

Why did the coach allow this, why did the lady cutting his hair cut his hair? I mean hell, they are equally to blame here right? They know the rules, they know what was said. Why weren't they more visibly upset?

In my opinion every adult on hand is partially to blame for allowing that to go down, especially if the coach or anyone else on that side pressured him to go through with it (no evidence of that). The coach claims that he was arguing with the referee and the referee started the injury clock (which is 2 minutes I believe).

As far as his history goes, I know you want to try to say that it shouldn't matter. If this was a different situation and you had a guy with a history of burglary that just happened to be in the same vicinity of a burglary, holding items that match what were stolen, you would probably think "hey that dude is a thief, I bet he did it" wouldnt you? If he has had history of having issue with black people, I think it definitely matters.

Now, if it comes out that the kid's cap truly wasn't good enough then I will gladly admit that we jumped to conclusions a bit here, but even then the kids choice shouldnt be "forfeit or cut your hair right now." The choice should be go find a better cap, I guarantee you there is someone on that team or another that has a "proper" cap or then give them the option of cutting the hair instead of forfeit. For some reason this referee not only didnt have a problem with the cap during weigh ins when hes supposed to check for that stuff, along with beards and fingernails, but he also felt the need to completely bypass letting him find another cap. Regardless, something stinks with this guy.

And for multiple referees, Im sure its different for every state but every match I've been to this year there has been one referee working the matches itself.

When I coached at Fultondale, they did only use 1 ref for a dual or tri meet. Understandably different for a tournament. Was this a tournament? If so, all of the refs should have been present in the meeting.

 

[TerryP]

@planomateo,

I read as far as "home made wine" and see argument in the picture...

That's shading the truth a bit because I did go back through three links for background. A lot of people can't handle 'shine. When all the details are put together it point to one thing.

Man, that's ^

 

[planomateo]

More info that haven't been widely reported at this point.


-------------------------

Wrestler Andrew Johnson forced to cut dreadlocks to avoid losing N.J. high school match

Wrestling experts questioned why the issue was not resolved earlier, possibly during weigh-in and not in a public shearing on the mat. Wrestlers must meet strict guidelines that govern their physical appearance, including facial hair and hair length, to protect both competitors.

O’Neill said Johnson had a covering, but it did not attach to his headgear, as required under new rules.

Another veteran wrestling official, Ron Roberts, a Buena graduate, said he visited his former high school team before the season to update the coaches and athletes on rule changes. He said that he told two athletes on the team with long dreadlocks that they would need to get the proper hair cover or cut their hair before taking the mat.

One said he planned to cut his hair, and Johnson said he would have the proper equipment, Roberts said.

Roberts said he was “angry” about the incident that happened on Wednesday night.

“It never should have come to this,” Roberts said. “It should have been addressed long before coming to this. You have to take the mat with the proper equipment.”

Details about the episode were slowly unfolding amid questions about why Johnson was not equipped with the proper covering, common among wrestlers with long hair.

....

During competition, “all wrestlers shall be clean shaven, with sideburns trimmed no lower than earlobe level and hair trimmed and well groomed,” according to rules from the National Federation of State High School Associations, based in Indianapolis.

“If an individual has hair longer than allowed by rule, it may be braided or rolled if it is contained in a cover so that the hair rule is satisfied. The legal hair cover shall be attached to the ear guards,” the guidelines state.

The covering must be made of a solid material, be nonabrasive, and attach to the wrestling ear guards. The wrestler is required to bring the covering for inspection by the referee at weigh-in.

 

[ColAngus]

Where was the kid's coach when all of this was going down?

 

[footballer]

The apple cart is now officially up side down. It seems as if a mountain has been made out of a mole hill. In this nation, there are far worse problems of racism, bigotry, discrimination and throw corruption in there as well on so many levels, to ponder, and deal with, it boggles my mind. Why can't everybody just treat others the way they want to be treated and not look to take advantage of other people every chance they get? Tell me, what is so freaking hard about that?

 

[bamafan9201]

More info that haven't been widely reported at this point.
O’Neill said Johnson had a covering, but it did not attach to his headgear, as required under new rules.

This is not a fact, just someone saying so, there has been no information on this portion of the story yet.

 

[planomateo]

The Johnson's attorney has spoken and they've released a statement. I would imagine Maloney's statement will be released shortly.

Still unclear why the head cover was rejected by the ref.

--------------------------

South Jersey wrestler was under ‘duress’ when he agreed to have dreadlocks cut, lawyer says

A South Jersey wrestler who opted to have his dreadlocks cut rather than forfeit a match asked to wear a head covering in order to compete, but the referee refused, his attorney said Monday.

In their first public comments about the incident involving Andrew Johnson during a match last week at Buena Regional High School in Atlantic County, his parents, Charles and Rosa Johnson expressed appreciation for an outpouring of support for their son.

Their attorney, Dominic A. Speziali, of Philadelphia, said the family is awaiting the outcome of an investigation by the New Jersey Division of Civil Rights. He said the conduct by referee Alan Maloney “appears more egregious as additional information comes to light.”

A video of Johnson’s dreadlocks being shorn in public by a school trainer before his overtime victory last Wednesday in a bout against Oakcrest High School went viral, creating an uproar on social media and leading to a state review. Maloney has been suspending from refereeing pending the outcome.

Maloney arrived late for the meet and missed the weigh-in when officials typically inspect wrestlers to determine if the physical appearance, such as hair length and skin condition, meet regulations, Speziali said. When the referee evaluated Johnson, he did not raise any concerns about the length of Johnson’s hair or say that he needed to wear a hair covering, the attorney said.

Johnson and his younger brother, Nate, also a teammate, were later told that both would need to wear a hair covering or they would be disqualified, Speziali said.

When Andrew Johnson took to the mat, Maloney rejected his head covering, the attorney said. Johnson was allowed to wear the same covering in a tournament the previous weekend, he said, and his coaches pleaded on his behalf with the referee to permit him to compete.

“Andrew was visibly shaken after he and his coaches made every effort to satisfy the referee short of having his hair cut. But, as captured on video, the unyielding referee gave Andrew 90 seconds to either forfeit his match or cut his hair," Speziali said in the statement. "Under duress but without any influence from the coaching staff or the athletic trainer, Andrew decided to hair cut rather than forfeit the match.”

Maloney, a veteran wrestling official, has not responded to numerous requests seeking comment. Other referees have defended his actions, saying he was simply enforcing rules changes implemented several years ago and that Johnson should have been equipped with the proper head covering.

The New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association, which oversees high school sports in the state, has referred the matter to the state Attorney General’s Office for review.

Maloney, who is white, previously was involved in another controversy after allegedly using a racial slur at a social gathering with sports officials in 2016. Johnson is black and some critics, including the American Civil Liberties Union,have called the hair cutting incident racist.

The Johnsons, in the statement, said Andrew, who has been wrestling since he was five years old, remains committed to the Buena wrestling program. They also expressed support for the school’s coaches and the athletic trainer. The family asked for privacy.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5667506/Johnson-Family-Statement.pdf

Andrew Johnson won his 120-pound bout 4-2 in overtime. Buena won the match, 41-24.

“Wrestling has taught Andrew to be resilient in the face of adversity,” his family said.