šŸ’¬ Tiger vs Phil PPV - Phil wins 9 million dollar purse in extra holes

As far as Bobby Jones goes, I'm going to have to leave you and your measuring stick to the 1920s. Lawdy.
You've done just that below--comparing a guy more than a quarter of a decade older.

Jack was able to navigate a 24-year career. And Tiger isn't finished. Regardless, I would put those 13 years of being #1 against anything The Golden Bear got done it that length of time.
Tiger isn't finished? We'll see.

Guarantee you this...put a TaylorMade M3 driver in Jack's or Bobby's hands and the adjustment in courses would have happened decades ago.

It's really funny that you're talking down about golf in the '20's. Geez, it's asinine. Bobby winning the grand slam using clubs like a "mashie" when Tiger is carrying four wedges.

Is Tiger in the top 10? Sure. Top five is not a bad ranking either. I'd be tempted to take Ouimet in some cases over Tiger. Certainly Vardon when it comes to playing the game.

And, if I may add, the fact Jack has success over such a long period of time ... no better standing there when it comes to the games greatest. And we've not even delved into runner-up finishes with Jack.
 
Tiger isn't finished? We'll see.

You still aren't going to correctly measure the 13 years Tiger was the #1 golfer in the world? Don't blame you, but it's not going anywhere.

It's really funny that you're talking down about golf in the '20's. Geez, it's asinine. Bobby winning the grand slam using clubs like a "mashie" when Tiger is carrying four wedges.

Or Bobby's competition that would have more reflected the upper tier of the aristocracy bluebloods than the best the WORLD had to offer. Bobby Jones would have found it daunting enough today to get through a ton of golfers not named Tiger Woods.

Is Tiger in the top 10? Sure. Top five is not a bad ranking either. I'd be tempted to take Ouimet in some cases over Tiger. Certainly Vardon when it comes to playing the game.

This is one scary black dude.


And, if I may add, the fact Jack has success over such a long period of time ... no better standing there when it comes to the games greatest. And we've not even delved into runner-up finishes with Jack.

Didn't stop people calling Jim Brown the greatest over, say, Emmitt Smith.
 
You still aren't going to correctly measure the 13 years Tiger was the #1 golfer in the world? Don't blame you, but it's not going anywhere.
Irrelevant to this conversation. The world rankings didn't start until 1986 when Jack won the Masters at 46. There's no telling how long he'd have been ranked #1 if those existed when he played.

Or Bobby's competition that would have more reflected the upper tier of the aristocracy bluebloods than the best the WORLD had to offer. Bobby Jones would have found it daunting enough today to get through a ton of golfers not named Tiger Woods.

So, his win at the Open was against...

It's still a point that carries little weight. For instance, it wasn't until '61 we saw a foreigner win the Masters.

You have substantiated an earlier point. Popularity, and hence context.

Tiger was good for the game, no doubt. It doesn't place him as the best ever.
Didn't stop people calling Jim Brown the greatest over, say, Emmitt Smith.

Plenty of reason to say so. Brown, like Bobby, left the game early. There's no telling where he'd be in today's record books. Context.
 
Irrelevant to this conversation. The world rankings didn't start until 1986 when Jack won the Masters at 46. There's no telling how long he'd have been ranked #1 if those existed when he played.


More subterfuge and misdirection. I said take the 13 years of peak accomplishments by Tiger Woods and measure them against any of Jack Nicholas best 13 years or anyone else. Why is that so difficult?

Plenty of reason to say so. Brown, like Bobby, left the game early. There's no telling where he'd be in today's record books. Context.

Correct. Tiger Woods if free of major injury there is simply "no telling" where he would be by now.
 
@TerryP, I suspect you follow this sport a little more than most and that's given you a unique perspective. No. I know you follow this sport much more than most.


When logic fails let's concentrate on human credentials. A common fallacy of life that often gets extrapolated when logic just isn't enough to make everyone happy.
 
Some of the things you've brought up here defies logic--citing #1 ranking is a perfect example when it didn't exist in Jack's day, or Bobby's time.

It is telling that a quick search for the best ever doesn't read Tiger, it reads Jack.


You seem to be struggling with what you read? Being officially ranked #1 doesn't have a thing to do with his actual achievements and comparison to others for those 13 years. What else you got?
 
Some of the things you've brought up here defies logic--citing #1 ranking is a perfect example when it didn't exist in Jack's day, or Bobby's time.

It is telling that a quick search for the best ever doesn't read Tiger, it reads Jack.


You seem to be struggling with what you read? Being officially ranked #1 doesn't have a thing to do with his actual achievements and comparison to others for those 13 years. What else you got?
You brought up the ranking in an effort to support him being the all timer you claim.
You still aren't going to correctly measure the 13 years Tiger was the #1 golfer in the world? Don't blame you, but it's not going anywhere.
You're using the #1 ranking as your primary point. It has no place because those rankings didn't exist.
 
You're using the #1 ranking as your primary point. It has no place because those rankings didn't exist.


Yes, but exactly what does being #1 mean? That's the point, not how old the rankings are. Why did this guy dominate his peers for 13 years? Are you incapable of simply measuring those achievements that made him #1 vs anyone else in the sport?
 
More subterfuge and misdirection. I said take the 13 years of peak accomplishments by Tiger Woods and measure them against any of Jack Nicholas best 13 years or anyone else. Why is that so difficult?
Clearly you know little about Jack's career. What did he do between '62 and '74? He dominated the tour just like Tiger.

They both won their first major their second year on the tour.

Right now Tiger has six more PGA wins than Jack--in a period where we have PGA tour events practically each week. Context comes into play, again, because there weren't that many PGA tour events in a season when Jack was in his early career.

Jack's career spans 25 years on the PGA. Tiger is in his 18th, if I recall correctly. He's still behind Jack in majors by four.

And here's something you'll likely try to call subterfuge and misdirection, but you're completely discounting how many times Jack was runner up. One career, at this point, doesn't really compare to the other in many ways.

I see you taking a 13 year span with Tiger as a standing point without noticing Jack stands right there with him....with inferior equipment, on harder courses, and I'm just getting started on the advantages Tiger has over Jack in other areas that aren't talent related.

Hell, you didn't see a guy like Harmon standing over Jack instructing him week by week.
 
And by the way, all this golf talk this afternoon makes me say this.

I hope it pisses you off that it's in the low 80's, a slight breeze, partly cloudy, and I'm going to go play 18 before work. Tee time in 52 minutes at Patriot's Point Links.

 
I see you taking a 13 year span with Tiger as a standing point without noticing Jack stands right there with him....with inferior equipment, on harder courses, and I'm just getting started on the advantages Tiger has over Jack in other areas that aren't talent related.


Yes, this is what I'm saying. I've never watched a golfer, in my lifetime, be that much better than everyone else in that 13 year period.

And everyone Jack played against had the same "inferior equipment."
 
I see you taking a 13 year span with Tiger as a standing point without noticing Jack stands right there with him....with inferior equipment, on harder courses, and I'm just getting started on the advantages Tiger has over Jack in other areas that aren't talent related.


Yes, this is what I'm saying. I've never watched a golfer, in my lifetime, be that much better than everyone else in that 13 year period.

And everyone Jack played against had the same "inferior equipment."
So you're not familiar with Jack's career. Fair enough.

Everyone didn't play with Tiger's equipment...golf was just getting into the equipment wars when he started off on tour.

The point was give Jack the same and it's a different story. Hell, the shaft alone has added 25+ yards to the game.
 
Best ever? Jack still rules.


Jack was able to navigate a 24-year career. And Tiger isn't finished. Regardless, I would put those 13 years of being #1 against anything The Golden Bear got done it that length of time.

As far as Bobby Jones goes, I'm going to have to leave you and your measuring stick to the 1920s. Lawdy.

It's Bear vs Saban but in golf. You can't compare because the measuring devices are different.
 
So you're not familiar with Jack's career. Fair enough.

Everyone didn't play with Tiger's equipment...golf was just getting into the equipment wars when he started off on tour.

The point was give Jack the same and it's a different story. Hell, the shaft alone has added 25+ yards to the game.

I was a big Jack Nicholas fan and he didn't dominate his peers even close to the overwhelming manner that Tiger has destroyed the field for those years. Save your typing fingers cause it won't be explained by equipment either. It was far too human and fearsome than that. He had opponents craping in their paints on any given tourney. And when he had the lead on Sundays, he didn't give it back.


So what makes the most dominant golfer of any generation? Here's some:

Highest Green in Regulation percentage for a season - 75.2% in 2000

Highest average birdies per round for a season - 4.92

Best season scoring average - He holds the top 9 spots in this category with his 2000 and 2007 average of 67.79 leading the way.

Most consecutive rounds at par or better - 52 from 2000-01

Most victories in a single event - 8 (Arnold Palmer Invitational and the WGC-Bridgestone). He's tied with Sam Snead who won the Greater Greensboro Open 8 times.

Most consecutive victories in an event - 4 (Arnold Palmer Invitational and the Buick Invitational). He's tied with Young Tom Morris, Walter Hagen and Gene Sarazen for this record.

Most victories at one course - 8 (Bay Hill Club, Torrey Pines Golf Course and Firestone Country Club)

Most wins by a player in their 20s - 46 (Jack Nicklaus in second with 30)
Youngest player to win the Masters Tournament - 21 years, 3 months, 14 days

One of 11 players since 1934 to win the week before a major - 2007 won the WGC-Bridgestone prior to winning the PGA Championship.

One of 9 players since 1934 to win the week after winning a major (the only player to do so twice) - Won the WGC-NEC Invitational following the 2000 PGA Championship and the WGC-Bridgestone following his 2006 PGA Championship win.
Consecutive cuts made - 141 (Byron Nelson second with 113)

Most years leading the money list - 10
Most consecutive years leading the money list - 4
His 11-1 playoff record is the best career playoff win percentage of players with at least 6 playoff wins.

Woods won 32 times on the PGA Tour from 1999 through 2003. No other player won more than eight times in that span.

From the 1999 PGA Championship through the 2002 U.S. Open, Woods won seven of the 11 majors contested. Woods was a cumulative 94 under par in those tournaments – 60 shots better than any other player.

Woods won 10 majors before his 30th birthday. Since the first Masters was held in 1934, the only player to even win five majors before turning 30 was Jack Nicklaus, who won seven.

In majors from 1997 through 2008, Tiger recorded 34 different rounds of 67 or better. No other player had more than 16 such rounds in that span.

Woods won 46 times in his 20s, 16 more than any other player in PGA Tour history (Nicklaus, again, is second). During the time Woods was in his 20s, the player with the second-most victories before age 30 was David Duval, with 13.

Woods has a career scoring average of 70.86 in the Masters. That is the best career scoring average in that event for any player with at least 50 rounds played. Woods’ 11 top-five finishes in the Masters is second all-time to Nicklaus.

During the entire 2000 PGA Tour season, Woods recorded one round higher than 73. One. It came in the first round of the Masters. He shot 75, on a day when the field averaged 75.59.

Tiger has won the Vardon Trophy (lowest scoring average on Tour) nine times, four more than any other player (Billy Casper, Lee Trevino). The trophy has been awarded since 1937.

There are five instances in PGA Tour history where a player won a single PGA Tour event seven or more times. Woods owns four of them. Sam Snead, who won in Greensboro eight times, is the only other player to do it once.

A player has won a major championship with a score of 18 under or better eight times. Tiger owns five of those eight instances.

Woods is, of course, the only man in the modern era to win four consecutive majors – a feat known as the Tiger Slam. The last of Tiger’s four straight major wins came at age 25. The only other players in the modern era to even win four career majors (not consecutive) at age 25 or younger are Jack Nicklaus and Rory McIlroy.

Woods is the only player in history to win the U.S. Junior Amateur, U.S. Amateur and U.S. Open in his career. He won three of each.

Woods has won nine USGA Championships in his career, tied with Bobby Jones for most all-time. Woods won the 2000 U.S. Open by 15 shots. No other player in the last 100 years has won a U.S. Open by more than nine shots.

From 2002-05, Woods had 1,540 putts from 3 feet and in on the PGA Tour. He only missed three of them.


Woods completed the career Grand Slam at age 24. Not only is he the youngest player to win the slam, only five other players in the last 50 years have won a major at age 24 or younger.

Tiger is 16-1 in his career in playoffs on the PGA and European tours. His only defeat came to Billy Mayfair at the 1998 Nissan Open.

Sports Illustrated’s Sportsman of the Year has been awarded since 1954. Woods is the only athlete to win the award more than once (1996, 2000).

Tiger has held the outright 54-hole lead 45 times in his PGA Tour career. He went on to win 43 of them, good for a 95.6 percent clip. For context - over the last three PGA Tour seasons, players with an outright 54-hole lead have gone on to win 39.7 percent of the time.

Tiger has held the outright 36-hole lead 33 times in his Tour career. He went on to win 28 of them (84.8 percent). In comparison, Jack Nicklaus’ 36-hole outright conversion rate was 63 percent.

Tiger’s 46 PGA Tour wins before he turned 30 would be eighth on the overall all-time wins list – one ahead of Walter Hagen.

Woods is credited with 40 career wins on the European Tour, third-most all-time. Woods has never played a full season on the European Tour.

Tiger is the only player since World War II to win a PGA Tour event four straight years. He did it two different times.

Tiger has won five straight PGA Tour starts three different times. Over the last 60 years, he is the only player to do it once.

From 1997 through 2008, Woods led or co-led following any round in a major 42 different times. Second on the list in that span was Phil Mickelson – with 13. Woods won 14 majors in that span.

Tiger has 18 career World Golf Championship victories. Second on the all-time list? Ogilvy. He has three.

In a stretch from the middle of the 1999 season through the middle of the 2001 season, Woods won 20 of the 38 stroke-play events he played on the Tour (a .526 win percentage). In those events, Woods was a combined 472 under, a cumulative score 307 shots better than anyone else. Vijay Singh was second.

From 1997 through 2008, Woods was a combined 126 under par in majors. There are 138 other players who played at least 40 rounds in major championships in that span. Among that group, Woods was a staggering 189 shots better than anyone else. Second on the list: Joe Ogilvie, at 63 over.
 
All time best huh? There are plenty of guys that would have something to say about that. He's not even remotely close to a LeBron-Jordan type discussion. Bobby Jones will forever be the best.

How did you conclude that? I'm guessing you've seen him play 0 rounds of golf, shirt and tie and all.

Tiger has been the most dominant golfer in its long history, pure and simple.

During the 2000’s, Tiger Woods was such a World-Beater that he could have single-handedly qualified for the Hindu caste system as an "untouchable" for 13 years of his life on tour. From the period of August 1999 to September 2004 (264 weeks) and again from the period of June 2005 to October 2010 (281 weeks), Woods was the undisputed World Number 1 in PGA Official World Golf Rankings. He has been ranked Numero Uno by the same ranking system for a record 683 weeks, an unmatched and unrivaled achievement. But only one of many. That my friend is perhaps domination that only a lifelong Crimson Tide fan could truly grasp.

There are these things called books. May want to try reading one and you'll conclude the same. Keep running your yapper about being a "lifelong Crimson Tide fan", but you come across as a ten year old child and quiet frankly I laugh because you have nothing else to say as you've reached pathetic status with your insults. Jack can't rival the domination? He's won more majors rhan Tiger and only a few wins behind him, so what the hell are you talking about? That is domination if he's won more. Never seen a grown man get all fuzzy downstairs over a professional athlete that he's older than. How many pairs of LeBron's do you have? Got a Tiger poster over the top of your bed? Bet your wife loves your kiddy crush on those two. And I'm more than happy to put your "lifelong" status against my short term status any day for what we've both done at and for the university. Wanna put $10M on it?
 
Jack won 6 majors after he turned 36, with 4 of those coming after 40. Tiger has won 0 since he turned 36.

I expected Tiger to win more once he slowed his club swing down...hasn't happened yet.

I'd be curious to see the number of tournaments each have played in up to a certain age...edit, found it. LOL, Jack made $5.7M...

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There are these things called books. May want to try reading one and you'll conclude the same. Keep running your yapper about being a "lifelong Crimson Tide fan", but you come across as a ten year old child and quiet feankly I laugh because you have nothing else to say as you've reached pathetic status with your insults. Never seen a grown man get all fuzzy downstairs over a professional athlete that he's older than. How many pairs of LeBron's do you have? Got a Tiger poster over the top of your bed? Bet your wife loves your kiddy crush on those two. And I'm more than happy to put your "lifelong" status against my short term status any day for what we've both done at and for the university. Wanna put $10M on it?

Now, who's being the child?
 
There are these things called books. May want to try reading one and you'll conclude the same. Keep running your yapper about being a "lifelong Crimson Tide fan", but you come across as a ten year old child and quiet feankly I laugh because you have nothing else to say as you've reached pathetic status with your insults. Never seen a grown man get all fuzzy downstairs over a professional athlete that he's older than. How many pairs of LeBron's do you have? Got a Tiger poster over the top of your bed? Bet your wife loves your kiddy crush on those two. And I'm more than happy to put your "lifelong" status against my short term status any day for what we've both done at and for the university. Wanna put $10M on it?

Now, who's being the child?

Just telling you to put your money where your mouth is. You talk a lot of trash, tell everyone they're wrong and you're right, stoop to bottom dwelling levels to cut someone down, so you deserve whatever anyone throws out squirt. Welcome to the environment you created.
 
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