🧑‍🤝‍🧑 / 🏡 Since I brought up eating and dress codes...do you have one for yourself when it comes to church?

I think it all depends on the type of church a person(s) prefers. As long as it is sound doctrine wise, I have no issue in what a person wears.
Oh, I don't care either way. It's curiosity driving my thoughts.

on the type of church a person(s) prefers.

I've seen a couple of reports this week about a resurgence of younger people attending church: the focus was on Catholic churches. In the videos they were all wearing what I'd call a step below business casual.
 
Is a church more appealing to those who need to be there, those who church groups feel is the sect they are witness to ...

Do those people feel more comfortable attending a church who has more of a "Walmart" feel versus one who has the feel of "Our Lady of Sorrows?"

I'm glad you brought up your wife and her playing the piano. It's part of my opinion, my beliefs, if you will.

Imagine a family of four getting in their car for a 30 minute ride to church. What's on the radio? Is it organ and piano music, or something contemporary? I think we'll agree the vast majority fall into the latter group, right?

It's my opinion, reaching the "lost" is a lot easier when it's also easier to come in the door. If the same genre of music is meeting folks as they enter churches and meetings, are they more conformtable listening to the message? I believe so.

The same opinion applies to environment, or "dress code" if you will. Which will make those the church is ministering to more comfortable?
Guess it's a personal choice. I don't want a wal mart church that accepts everything that makes you feel good personally. I'd much rather have a pastor step on my toes a bit than one who strays from biblical teachings to make me feel good about my choices. It's human nature to justify what we want to do, it's not the church's job to do the same. I've rarely felt judged by what I wore to church and I've probably been to churches in more areas than most due to our travels. I've been to some I didn't agree with their message and those are the ones I'd never return to and I don't mean didn't agree because it was something I wanted to do I mean disagreed because it wasn't biblical.
 
Guess it's a personal choice. I don't want a wal mart church that accepts everything that makes you feel good personally. I'd much rather have a pastor step on my toes a bit than one who strays from biblical teachings to make me feel good about my choices. It's human nature to justify what we want to do, it's not the church's job to do the same. I've rarely felt judged by what I wore to church and I've probably been to churches in more areas than most due to our travels. I've been to some I didn't agree with their message and those are the ones I'd never return to and I don't mean didn't agree because it was something I wanted to do I mean disagreed because it wasn't biblical.
I've come to the opinion that the services / meetings have different roles. Sunday morning should be geared to the visitor, not the person that's in the same spot every week.

Sunday nights? That's where the "study" and "feelings" come into play. What you'll call "stepping on toes," I'll call teaching.

The Wednesday crowd? That's where I'd slate the hard core stuff: in depth studies.
The Holiness churches are the ones that still dress up for every service. Coat and tie and dresses on the females. Some of the ladies I have seen near my home in Ohio still wear the fluffy hairdos.
There's a Seventh Day church a mile or so from here. The last time I was by there, during a service time, they were dressed to the "T."

Predominately black, Baptist churches are another.
 
I've come to the opinion that the services / meetings have different roles. Sunday morning should be geared to the visitor, not the person that's in the same spot every week.

Sunday nights? That's where the "study" and "feelings" come into play. What you'll call "stepping on toes," I'll call teaching.

The Wednesday crowd? That's where I'd slate the hard core stuff: in depth studies.

There's a Seventh Day church a mile or so from here. The last time I was by there, during a service time, they were dressed to the "T."

Predominately black, Baptist churches are another.
What i call stepping on toes is when the pastor is preaching on something that I have being doing or not doing, kinda calling me out. Not personally but it feels like he's talking to me, it's relatable. Teaching is a little different imo. I prefer sermons in the morning that are lessons but not so much a teaching of a chapter or a book, if that makes sense. To me Sunday evenings and Wednesday nights are more for teaching, I want "feeling" in the Sunday morning service while understanding that today's sermon may not be for me. Most pastors can teach but not all can preach a God inspired message imo.

Wife's family is 7th day, I went once or twice while visiting, they were always dressed to a T.
 
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Our church doesn't have a dress code. Women are allowed to wear pants and a lot of the men wear jeans. Our pastor will be the only one wearing a tie and only on Sunday morning. Sunday night is a lot more casual and he wears casual clothing like everyone else. I mentioned I teach the mostly senior adult class of both men and women. I've taught Sunday School for 42 years although not consecutively. Here's an example of my style of teaching from last Sunday.

Matthew 18:21–35

I mentioned in the book Patsy and I wrote that we had never had a serious disagreement or argument. Here is the main reason. Most of you know Patsy has always been a Christian role model. She was for me before we married and has been after we married.

Early in our marriage, I brought a problem home from work that had put me in a bad mood all day. She could tell something was wrong and tried to help me. I stubbornly refused her help and was terribly ill with her.

She left me alone and I pouted about the problem for the next couple of days. By the time I got home the third day, I had come to my senses and realized I had been ill at Patsy without any reason. Nothing about the problem was her fault.

Patsy greeted me like nothing had ever happened. Neither of us said anything much until after supper.

I finally apologized and asked, "Patsy, how is it possible that after I acted so badly the past couple of days, you act like nothing ever happened? How do you do that?”

"Easy," Patsy said. "I just clean the toilet every day.

"What? How does cleaning the toilet every day keep you so calm?"

"I clean the toilet using your toothbrush."

Getting even is a natural instinct, isn't it?



Someone once said that forgiveness is not forgetting what happened — it's refusing to let what happened hold you hostage.

Jesus is going to show us something far better — and far more powerful — than getting even.

Matthew 18:21–22 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
The rabbis of Peter's day taught that forgiving someone three times was enough. Peter thought he was being generous by suggesting seven. Jesus set him straight — not by naming a new upper limit, but by doing away with the limit altogether.

Seventy times seven means you keep on forgiving. Every time that memory resurfaces, you forgive again. Forgiveness is not something you count or run out of.

The recurring memory does not mean the forgiveness wasn't real — it just means we are human.

Matthew 18:23–27 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
A king sat down to settle accounts with his servants. One man owed ten thousand talents — it would take an ordinary working person two hundred thousand years to earn it. It was an impossible debt for any human to pay.

The king ordered the man sold along with his wife and children and all he owned. The servant fell at his feet and begged for patience. And the king — moved with compassion — did something far greater than grant patience: he forgave the entire debt.

That is a picture of every one of us before God. We owed a debt we could never pay. And our King forgave it all.

Matthew 18:28–30 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

That same servant, just forgiven of an impossible debt, went out and found a fellow servant who owed him roughly a hundred days' wages. Real money, but nothing compared to what had just been forgiven him.

He grabbed the man by the throat and had him thrown into prison.

Jesus designed this parable so we would shake our heads in disbelief. When we refuse to forgive, we are that unmerciful servant.

That servant should have stepped back and said, "I cannot hold anything against you. What you owe me is nothing compared to what I owed. I forgive you everything."

And that is exactly what you and I must do when someone wrongs us. We must remember what Jesus has done for us.

If we have been saved, our entire sin debt has been paid. God will never hold our sins against us.

Matthew 18:31–32 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
The king's question in verse 33 is the central question of the entire parable: "Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?"

If you have experienced the love and forgiveness of Jesus, how can you not forgive?

The king's question is also Jesus looking at each of us personally and asking us that question.

The Apostle Paul said the same thing the king said — and he told us exactly what to put away and what to put on in its place. Paul is giving us the "instruction manual" for the heart attitude Jesus described.

Ephesians 4:31-32 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour (shouting), and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

Matthew 18:34
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Notice too that the unmerciful servant ended up in prison — with tormentors.

An unforgiving spirit does not punish the other person. It torments the one holding the grudge.

Bitterness is a prison we build for ourselves.

Matthew 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
This verse is not about the loss of salvation. Our standing before God as His child is secure.

But an unforgiving heart breaks our fellowship with the Father and opens the door to His fatherly discipline until the matter is dealt with.

God does not deal with His children as an angry judge. He deals with them as a loving Father.

And why does a loving father discipline his children? Because He knows that holding a grudge will eventually destroy their peace, their relationships, and their spiritual life.

Forgiveness is not forgetting. Jesus never said, "forgive and forget." In fact, the king in the parable remembered the debt clearly enough to call the servant and confront him with it.

Many people don't forgive because they think it means they have to trust the person again or pretend the pain didn't happen.

Forgiveness requires us to release the debt, but we aren't required to walk back into the line of fire.

Forgiveness is not a concession that the other person was right and we were wrong. It does not mean we approve of what they did.

Forgiveness is a voluntary, intentional choice to release someone from a debt they owe.

Forgiveness is the choice to say, "I release you from that debt. I am not going to make you pay."

It is placing them in the hands of a just God. God will settle the score one day. The best thing we can do is release the offender and let God handle what we cannot.

Resentment is like drinking poison while hoping the other person dies.

Someone may say, "I don't feel like forgiving." Here is the answer to that; forgiveness is an action, not an emotion.

God does not say, "Forgive when you feel like it." He says, “forgive because it is what I have done for you.”

Willpower alone is not sufficient. The secret is found in the gospel — how God has forgiven the sins of me and you.

The gospel does not say, "Pay God for your sins." The gospel declares: Jesus paid it all.

The Law said, Pay. No grace offered.

The Gospel says: Paid in full. Paid in full. Paid in full.

There is something in human nature that wants accounts settled on our terms. We want the other person to feel what we felt.

But just as we have been forgiven of all our sins — we are now to extend that same forgiveness toward those who have wronged us.

Only the power of the Holy Spirit can fill our hearts with real, lasting forgiveness. We make the decision. We put it into practice by praying for them.

If we look for it, God will help us find a way to forgive. It may be the hardest thing you have ever done.

Remember what our King did for us. Release the offender from your judgment. Resolve to overcome evil with good.

Think of one person this week who owes you a 'hundred pence.' just tell God, from the heart, 'I release them from the debt,' and see how your heart feels by next Sunday.

And a personal note: It will not hurt to have a spare toothbrush.

Thank you for your kind attention. Any comments or questions?
 
Thank you for your kind attention. Any comments or questions?
That reads a hell of a lot better than Jonathan Edwards!

I'm glad you shared this because it fits with what Kayne said earlier about peronal choices for different "types" of church services.

I've mentioned I've attended two over the last quarter of a century. The first, Cathedral, would have a live skit to tell the story you shared. And yes, likely with a bathroom set built on the stage. The second, Seacoast, would do that but it would be a film production. Literally, like a scene you would see on a TV show: professionally done.

Now, Seacoast and its satellites aren't "Walmart's." But it does fit my descriptor. The way the message is delivered fits with everyone's daily life. Think about it. Have you seen a scene on a TV show and started relating it to your life?

Cathedral? I would refer you back to the thread about Cats. A bit of a refined delivery with their message; live actors, sets, and the like.

You in your class. Mike, at Cathedral, talking...or Greg at Seacoast. All three different; same message being delivered.

(I can hear a Korean church tuning up 🎶 for their sunrise service...'bout a half of a mile from here. They hand delivered invitations to the neighborhood for free breakfast. I'm going to pass...but I'll make a point of an offering/donation. They're doing good work.)
 
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