🏈 Shane Lee is only getting better even after getting bashed in the media last season

[50+yeartidefan]

HIs post is a great example for you wanting one coach fired.

How any coaches handle these responsibilities? Believe you me, it is not his (Banks) responsibility to point to 11 guys and say "you up for the punt team now." That's settled long before the kick off. If they miss their assignment it's on them. Lack of execution and concentration on what was happening at the time.

@EasyTider has pointed to eight different areas in special teams in his post.

I realize you want to blame Banks for the Auburn play. It's off base and I thought @BamaBoyJosh did a good job of explaining that to you the other day. He was spot on.

Ooopppsss....i dont blame players....ever...never
Josh ...blames nick....i think thats why he has assistants...and pays them well...ultimately falls on boss...been there personally.... but he has high paid assistants....and has to hold them accountable....which i have seem some demonstrative behavior holding them so... josh had his opinion..i fully diagreewith...
But nick may well have panicked.....and jumped in ..over riding asst coach or feeling they weren’t prepared for that fox..GUS.... havent ever seen that before from nick....
I dont have dog in race about who is retained andwho isnt... if you think nick calls me and ask.... he doesnt... its just my own experience....and from what i have observed...as a fan... results bear a screw up...
"Lack of concentration and execution " you say...i agree....thats when coach steps in..settles things downand make sure its done right...offense..defense..STs...like its practiced and like they are prepared for...( prepared for anything if prepared properly)...and if not....make necessary and proper changes...( did this happen?)..
And have seen many ACs counting the players going on field to make sure the right amt participate...
And @EasyTider pointed to 8..right....not all happens at same time...also gave thumbs down to 6 of 8...

 

[UAgrad93]

And have seen many ACs counting the players going on field to make sure the right amt participate..

Saban is counting as well!!! I worked on 5 HS staffs and we ALL counted each and every time that we broke the huddle. It still happens with too many and on the rare occasion, not enough on the field. Assistants were responsible for getting the substitution for an injury out there. Problem was, the starter would often here his team called and he would run out and not tell the coach or his sub. Communication is the key!!!!

 

[JoshB]

Josh ...blames nick....i think thats why he has assistants...and pays them well...ultimately falls on boss...been there personally.... but he has high paid assistants....and has to hold them accountable....which i have seem some demonstrative behavior holding them so... josh had his opinion..i fully diagreewith...

It's not my opinion that it's not the ST coach's responsibility on whether or not the defense gets subbed in or out. It is a FACT that the ST coach does not decide that. You may not like that fact, for whatever reason, but it is a fact. It has been explained to you over and over and over. I'm sorry that it isn't getting through.

Y'all leave me outta this lol

 

[BamaFan334]

It's not my opinion that it's not the ST coach's responsibility on whether or not the defense gets subbed in or out. It is a FACT that the ST coach does not decide that. You may not like that fact, for whatever reason, but it is a fact. It has been explained to you over and over and over. I'm sorry that it isn't getting through.

Y'all leave me outta this lol

Who sent Waddle on the field?

 

[Tidestalker]

How is it not his job to make sure there are 11? It's his team, just like an offensive coordinator getting his personnel together. They make substitutions, not Saban.

The defense went back on the field. Is that also his team?

For the 1,000th time - Saban decides which team goes on the field... Not the S/T coordinator.

 

[BamaFan334]

The defense went back on the field. Is that also his team?

For the 1,000th time - Saban decides which team goes on the field... Not the S/T coordinator.

You didn't answer the question. Who sent Waddle onto the field? Last time I checked he didn't play defense.

 

[JoshB]

You didn't answer the question. Who sent Waddle onto the field? Last time I checked he didn't play defense.

I think you're misconstruing what happened. The punt return team was sent out and then Saban realized that Auburn didn't actually sub in the punt team and told the defense to go back out. Illegal substitution.

 

[Tidestalker]

You didn't answer the question. Who sent Waddle onto the field? Last time I checked he didn't play defense.

Who sent him out? Saban.

Saban decides if the O, D or Special teams goes on the field. It falls under game management.... The Head Coach's #1 job.

Any time you mix 2 units on 1 play due to indecision, confusion, or flat out panic... Something bad is more likely to happen. It did.

 

[BamaFan334]

I think you're misconstruing what happened. The punt return team was sent out and then Saban realized that Auburn didn't actually sub in the punt team and told the defense to go back out. Illegal substitution.

12 men on the field. Who did not get Waddle off? If they had time to get eleven defensive players back onto the field, who did not get Waddle off?

 

[BamaFan334]

Who sent him out? Saban.

Saban decides if the O, D or Special teams goes on the field. It falls under game management.... The Head Coach's #1 job.

Any time you mix 2 units on 1 play due to indecision, confusion, or flat out panic... Something bad is more likely to happen. It did.

So what is the job of the special teams coach? I understand Saban calls the unit out, but the special teams coach doesn't sit there all game slipping sweet nothings into his kicker's ear. Even in high school our special teams coach gathered us full knowing we were about to be up and had us ready. His sole job was to make sure we had eleven and the right eleven. Waddle goes out and needs to come off, the special teams coach should be there screaming his balls off for him to run to a sideline or the back of the endzone. "Oh crap, my returner" would have been my thought. I just re-watched the ending and there was time for Waddle to get off with as fast as he is.

 

[BamaFan334]

@Tidestalker @BamaBoyJosh

I am in agreement that Saban ultimately takes the blame in the end. Just like in business, the CEO always takes the blame because it's his company, but if the financials are messed up it's because of the Finance team, not the CEO. He pays a Special Teams coach a ton of money to be the best in the country, and at that juncture in the game you have to know your job is at it's peak and you gotta be ready. If anything, they should have ran the closest corner off the field.

 

[Tidestalker]

@Tidestalker @BamaBoyJosh

I am in agreement that Saban ultimately takes the blame in the end. Just like in business, the CEO always takes the blame because it's his company, but if the financials are messed up it's because of the Finance team, not the CEO. He pays a Special Teams coach a ton of money to be the best in the country, and at that juncture in the game you have to know your job is at it's peak and you gotta be ready. If anything, they should have ran the closest corner off the field.

Fair point.... I just don't know how realistic it is for the S/T Coach to run down the field and yell at him to get off... But it sure was obvious that Banks, nor any other coach on the staff, even considered the fact that Waddle was still back there. One of the most frustrating scenarios ever because of the silliness of the whole circumstance. Fucking Gus's wet dream. SMH

 

[BamaFan334]

Fair point.... I just don't know how realistic it is for the S/T Coach to run down the field and yell at him to get off... But it sure was obvious that Banks, nor any other coach on the staff, even considered the fact that Waddle was still back there. One of the most frustrating scenarios ever because of the silliness of the whole circumstance. Fucking Gus's wet dream. SMH

1

Fair point.... I just don't know how realistic it is for the S/T Coach to run down the field and yell at him to get off... But it sure was obvious that Banks, nor any other coach on the staff, even considered the fact that Waddle was still back there. One of the most frustrating scenarios ever because of the silliness of the whole circumstance. Fucking Gus's wet dream. SMH

Agreed, that greasy bastard pisses me off that he wins on a play like that, but he got the dang W in the end.

 

[mando]

The high school coach has to rely on deceit and trickery. Freak player or freak plays is the barn way. Pathetic the Bama staff fell for that crap, period. Enough other issues in that game to not make it about this one play and coaching decisions.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Sounds like all points made....
Believe what u may...
I dont understsome of the logic....???
But to each their own....but my point extended past one game....one play...
Moving on...

 

[TerryP]

So what is the job of the special teams coach?

Which one?

 

[BamaFan334]

Which one?

Hmmm, let's go with in game on the field punt return coach for the sake of this discussion. The guy that handles that.

 

[TerryP]

Hmmm, let's go with in game on the field punt return coach for the sake of this discussion. The guy that handles that.

The 11 for the punt return team are selected before the game, right? So, that was handled exactly the way it was supposed to be handled. At that point Banks job is pretty much done.

Why didn't Waddle realize the defense had returned? You'd have to ask him. The notion that any position coach or coordinator is counting to 11 each play isn't realistic. They catch 12 men on the field, on occasion, and the vast majority of the time that's a players mistake.

This whole discussion reminds me of seeing a guy break a punt return or kick return for a touchdown against Bama and immediately we see "fire Bobby Williams" because a player didn't maintain his lane. That wasn't on Bobby. It reminds me of the "fire the ST coach" because of missed field goals when the ST coach isn't working with the guys when they are practicing (not to mention the guys aren't working with the position group as well.)

I'm left with the impression there's a lot angst over one really weird set of circumstances: all with Gus at the forefront. The angst? A waste of time for me. It's what he brings to the game.

 

[BamaFan334]

The 11 for the punt return team are selected before the game, right? So, that was handled exactly the way it was supposed to be handled. At that point Banks job is pretty much done.

Why didn't Waddle realize the defense had returned? You'd have to ask him. The notion that any position coach or coordinator is counting to 11 each play isn't realistic. They catch 12 men on the field, on occasion, and the vast majority of the time that's a players mistake.

This whole discussion reminds me of seeing a guy break a punt return or kick return for a touchdown against Bama and immediately we see "fire Bobby Williams" because a player didn't maintain his lane. That wasn't on Bobby. It reminds me of the "fire the ST coach" because of missed field goals when the ST coach isn't working with the guys when they are practicing (not to mention the guys aren't working with the position group as well.)

I'm left with the impression there's a lot angst over one really weird set of circumstances: all with Gus at the forefront. The angst? A waste of time for me. It's what he brings to the game.

So you're saying he picked his eleven at the beginning of the game (obviously before then) and that's where his job ends? Come on man, you know good and well he is gathering his guys up on the last drive of a game that has Playoff implications and that he is right in the middle of his guys screaming "don't jump offsides" and to make sure his guys are ready so he isn't the guy that fails the team from a coaching standpoint.

I am not of the mind to fire a coach that allows a punt return, because those happen, and as long as it isn't happening every game, I understand that.

Same for field goals. NOW, my question here comes with "why did the coaches continue to go with that same kicker that keeps missing". That is in fact a Saban decision I would think, but also after he gets feedback from the kicking coach.

Waddle being left on the field was very unfortunate, and I still think it lies with his position coach for not making sure he was in the right place. The return guy after all was the most important player on the field for us at that time because he needed to field the ball to give us a shot. He had time to get off as we substituted.

 

[TerryP]

So you're saying he picked his eleven at the beginning of the game (obviously before then) and that's where his job ends? Come on man, you know good and well he is gathering his guys up on the last drive of a game that has Playoff implications and that he is right in the middle of his guys screaming "don't jump offsides" and to make sure his guys are ready so he isn't the guy that fails the team from a coaching standpoint.

No. That's not what I was saying. I'm saying the 11 that were supposed to be on the field for the punt unit is determined pre game. The 11 on defense determined by down and distance along with scheme call.

The 11 are chosen before the game. That's not a situation where he's counting out the 11 each punt. That's the players responsibility of knowing what's going on. Which puts the mistake on Waddle.

Same for field goals. NOW, my question here comes with "why did the coaches continue to go with that same kicker that keeps missing". That is in fact a Saban decision I would think, but also after he gets feedback from the kicking coach.

What kicking coach? Why would a coach play a guy that's been making his field goals in practice?

The right question is why is Saban choosing to have his kickers practice with different holders and snappers in practice versus the games? We don't know that answer because we haven't had anyone with the balls to ask him (and I'm not saying I would...be a bad hill to die upon.)