🏈 Saban, along with other coaches, unhappy with the early signing dates

[TerryP]

As for coaches, if the doors are open, they will have to be there. Throw in this early signing period and they have to open the doors!!

OK. So, in some cases it'll add an extra five days to what they'd normally have off. Other situations it may not have any effect at all--max a day or two.

Bottom line as I'm reading this it adds quite a bit to the coaches plate. More work, and with the new recruiting rules about camp participation we're factually adding less money.

 

[TerryP]

Dabo just said he likes the ESD, maybe he doesn't like his players being able to keep all their options open for a reason.

Hypothetical: Would it have changed where Nkemdiche played?

 

[TUSKtimes]

Hypothetical: Would it have changed where Nkemdiche played?

Maybe Freeze makes him an offer he can't refuse a little earlier. When did we lose Ruiz last year? He got homesick real late in the process and that was that.

 

[TerryP]

Maybe Freeze makes him an offer he can't refuse a little earlier. When did we lose Ruiz last year? He got homesick real late in the process and that was that.

Mid January?

 

[TUSKtimes]

Mid January?

These recruits can and do get cold feet and some start feeling a strong sense of buyer's remorse in the waning moments leading up to the big day. Saban doesn't mind his own kids dangling and being undecided as much as some. Maybe the more chaos the better the chances we get more than we lose. That's the math I think coaches know well and are comfortable with, based on their own recent history of doing business.

 

[UAgrad93]

Small schools will pressure these kids to sign early in an attempt to keep them from waiting on that big offer. I had a kid that was a basketball/baseball player and a small school basketball school offer pressed him to sign early while he was waiting on baseball. The pressure is enormous!!

 

[TerryP]

Just thinkin' ...

Mike Leach is at Texas Tech and has a commitment from Greg McElroy. What happens there? If you don't recall, he committed to the Tide in mid-January.

 

[Tidestalker]

Yep...suspected this is where you were headed.



As I've said I don't see any issues with an early signing period as long as it benefits the kid. This doesn't, in any way, benefit the kids. It's still the same pressure and distractions they've always endured--the leading issue behind the proposal and passage of the rule.

What's ignored (maybe not the right word) is this is a zero sum game. It's related, in a distant sense, to those arguing about satellite camps under the guise of "kids that wouldn't get scholarships now will." True, but that also means other kids that would have, won't.


Oh, there are so many holes in this list it would take awhile to comment on each. You're missing on many, staring with the first. Jarez said to reporters on that Wednesday he was waiting to see if a spot opened up. Oh damn. He's waiting to see but it's something Saban pulled?
One of the kids you've mentioned here downright lied.

Bradley Bozeman had planned on greyshirting and found out a spot opened up so he reported earlier than planned.

If I knew OJ Smith was staring at a grey shirt I'm pretty damn sure OJ Smith knew he was headed for a gray shirt.

Reese Dismukes? Are you kidding me? He committed to Auburn almost a year before NSD of '11.

There certainly isn't an altruistic tone to your thoughts on this subject. Namely, the idea of a player wanting to attend Bama and being able to sign early so his "spot" doesn't go to someone else. But then again there is. What of that other player who proves he deserves a spot at this level and doesn't have his opportunity? What if that original player proves he doesn't deserve a spot (whether it be on the field or off the field.)

There's no easy answer. That's likely the reason the NCAA is legislating the way they do.

You're missing the point on all those kids - And that is this:

When the kid is offered a scholarship, it's not to grey shirt. When/Why that change is justified in Saban's mind is a moot point to me... But if helps keep coaches accountable for their "word" then I'm all for it. And the early signing period will certainly give that opportunity to a handful of kids... Or force college coaches to be up front earlier in the process which gives kids a better idea of where they stand for the original NSD date.

No one is holding a gun to either side here. Your argument that a better player may come along and "deserve" the spot more than the first player is pointless - Because if that's the case, NO ONE IS MAKING ALABAMA TAKE THE PLAYERS COMMITMENT. IF YOU AREN'T SOLD ON THE PLAYER DON'T OFFER HIM. Much better process than offering the kid, taking his commitment, then backing off because of whatever reason he wants to use down the road.

And at the same time no one is forcing the kid to sign early. It's just another option. More options for college kids is always better considering the financial landscape of the NCAA and difference in accountability between coaches and players.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Hypothetical: Would it have changed where Nkemdiche played?

As long as you matched cash flow with signing date, probably not.

 

[TerryP]

You're missing the point on all those kids - And that is this:

When the kid is offered a scholarship, it's not to grey shirt. When/Why that change is justified in Saban's mind is a moot point to me... But if helps keep coaches accountable for their "word" then I'm all for it. And the early signing period will certainly give that opportunity to a handful of kids.

I get what you're saying. I'm also of the opinion you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Out of 299 recruits signed by Saban you've got a point in one, Philon. And, even with him, you're taking the story completely out of context to support your feelings here.

It's certainly different than pointing to a guy like Bozeman who doesn't even belong in this conversation. But, it's not so different than the the guy who lied about not knowing.

I've asked this before of you. When asked, why didn't Philon get his knee scoped when the staff at Bam asked him to do so? Why did his high school coach "coach" him into making that decision? In an attempt to lay all of his story at Saban's feet you're also leaving out some very important components of the story.

When/Why that change is justified in Saban's mind is a moot point to me...

Here's where I can not agree with you. And, Philon's case is a prime example.

 

[Tidestalker]

I get what you're saying. I'm also of the opinion you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Out of 299 recruits signed by Saban you've got a point in one, Philon. And, even with him, you're taking the story completely out of context to support your feelings here.

It's certainly different than pointing to a guy like Bozeman who doesn't even belong in this conversation. But, it's not so different than the the guy who lied about not knowing.

I've asked this before of you. When asked, why didn't Philon get his knee scoped when the staff at Bam asked him to do so? Why did his high school coach "coach" him into making that decision? In an attempt to lay all of his story at Saban's feet you're also leaving out some very important components of the story.

Here's where I can not agree with you. And, Philon's case is a prime example.

So you're seriously telling me all those other kids when originally offered were told it was a grey shirt offer?

LLLLLLIES!

I don't give a damn what the Alabama staff asked him to do with his knee... It's his knee. The bigger issue is not telling him your intentions on or right before NSD.

And if you knew OJ Smith was going to grey shirt, why didn't he? Kind of funny to see Saban get bullied into something publicly but OJ won that battle.

It's just about honesty man. Nothing more/nothing less. An early NSD forces coaches to either take the commitment from an "offer" they handed out or actually be honest earlier in the process. Don't know why you have such a hard time seeing this... Maybe it's the Crimson Glasses... But it's a good thing for the athletes to have more options.

 

[TerryP]

But for Saban to not see how it benefits "anybody" is disingenuous. He should look at his own grey shirting record for proof.

So you're seriously telling me all those other kids when originally offered were told it was a grey shirt offer?

There's two things you've thrown in a conversation about an early signing day that throw the conversation off track.

OJ Smith bullied Saban. Three things in the thread. And like Reese, wrong. Academics that fall, remember? Look it up.

Health benefits because a kid gets freakishly injured? No. He wouldn't be covered until he started school no matter when he signed.

Four things...I can't keep track, man.

The gray shirt stories you're using--and mischaracterizing them is something I'm saying--as examples of why it's a good idea just don't fit. It's taking today's model, putting it over period where it doesn't fit, and saying look at what would have changed.

I'm left shaking my head 'cause I can't keep track of where you're going. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tidestalker]

There's two things you've thrown in a conversation about an early signing day that throw the conversation off track.

OJ Smith bullied Saban. Three things in the thread. And like Reese, wrong. Academics that fall, remember? Look it up.

Health benefits because a kid gets freakishly injured? No. He wouldn't be covered until he started school no matter when he signed.

Four things...I can't keep track, man.

The gray shirt stories you're using--and mischaracterizing them is something I'm saying--as examples of why it's a good idea just don't fit. It's taking today's model, putting it over period where it doesn't fit, and saying look at what would have changed.

I'm left shaking my head 'cause I can't keep track of where you're going. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're defending the indefensible basic premise that Saban (and others) will offer kids a scholarship... Move them down the board, without telling them, and when it's time to commit (or even worse, sign) they find out there isn't room in the class.

You seriously disagree this has happened multiple times to those named above (and likely many others)? At a lot of schools?

My point is if those kids wanted to commit at the early period, then coaches are forced to make that decision months earlier in the process so the player certainly knows by the original NSD who's offer is legitimate.

It puts pressure on the coaching staff to shit or get off the pot earlier in the process. That's a beautiful thing in my book.

I will guarantee you there were a handful of kids that want to sign early with Bama but were told to wait... NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Much better now than in February on NSD.

Ya dig?

 

[TerryP]

You seriously disagree this has happened multiple times to those named above (and likely many others)?

I've covered those guys in this thread. I just did with OJ in the very post you quoted.

 

[Tidestalker]

I've covered those guys in this thread. I just did with OJ in the very post you quoted.

OK then.

OJ Somehow went from not fulfilling his academic requirements for Saban on Feb 4 and being asked to grey shirt, to signing on Feb 5th and being allowed in the class.

Must have re taken a math quiz that night, right?! lol

Alabama DT commit O.J. Smith to delay signing (reports, updated)

O.J. Smith changes plans again, signs with Tide after flirting with Mississippi State (Alabama signee profile)

 

[TUSKtimes]

Early Signing Period schedule for Alabama targets and commits

 

[JoshB]

That's 1-1.5%, isn't it?! lol

But you know as well as I do, there are more kids who get pushed out of their "offer" late in the process. Kids who have an iron clad offer this time of year and by the end of the year when the smoke clears, Alabama or school A/B/C has bumped them down the board. It would certainly benefit those kids to be able to sign early.

And do not get me wrong - I don't blame the schools for moving on 1 bit. If a kid wants to be at a school he should commit. But at the same time it's completely disingenuous for Saban to pretend like an early signing period doesn't benefit kids. It does. Any time a kid can assure himself of a paid for education (for at least a year) and not have to worry about injury, politics, coaching changes impacting their future, yes it's beneficial.

BTW off the top of my head - Kids that Saban "Saban'd" and took some public embarrassment: Jarez Parks, OJ Smith, Taylor (RB from georgia), Darius Philon, Bradley Bozeman, the tall OLB from Hoover that ended up at Wiscy, can we add Reese Dismukes? So more than 2-3 kids.

Now if any of those kids were offered under the preface it was a grey shirt, by all means take them off the list.

Reese Dismukes? Where the hell did you hear that bullshit?