🏈 Nick Saban Submitted Complaint Over Ole Miss Pop-Pass TD to SEC Office
- Thread starter PhillyGirl
- Start date
planomateo
Member
mrchase
Member
In the moment you're going to want to go after the guy with the ball. Say he stays and Kelly keeps running........some will argue "why didn't he try to make the tackle"
Watching the replay, it looked as though we were in cover 2. Our corner bumped the WR off of his track in an attempt to buy the safety time to get over the top. The corner came up when he saw the QB pressing the LOS. The safety took his eyes off of his responsibility when he sees the lineman downfield blocking the playside backer. His key tells him that it is a run and that he is filling the alley.
In the NFL, umpire was moved out to where the SEC currently has their 8th official. Throw 2 flags, one for illegal forward pass and the other for lineman downfield. It will automatically go to the booth for review, so problem solved.
In the NFL, umpire was moved out to where the SEC currently has their 8th official. Throw 2 flags, one for illegal forward pass and the other for lineman downfield. It will automatically go to the booth for review, so problem solved.
Supposedly the 8th official was intended to help enforce that from happening. It happened twice on Saturday on almost identical plays. Jeremy Johnson had a flag throw against him but was found that part of his body was still behind the LOS. Similar to Kelly. On both plays linemen were beyond the 3 yard buffer and were never seen/flagged. I think not only does the rule need to be like the NFL with only 1 yard being the buffer for linemen, also they need it do like the NFL and if any part of you is past the LOS it is an illegal forward pass. That will help a lot with all of this HUNH pull it back from the run and pass it.
'65 Cobra
Member
Agree on both accounts.
Killer Instinct
Member
Steve Shaw (SEC coordinator of officals) full (politically correct) answer on run/pass option
There were two plays this weekend where a guy had part of his body across the line of scrimmage and threw for a touchdown (Alabama-Ole Miss and LSU-Auburn). Some coaches say the problem is lineman blocking downfield, it looks like a run but is a pass, others say 'That's the rule,' how do you weigh those plays and the impact that can those plays can have?
So there are two parts of that, and one is talking about the quarterback. By rule, what the rulebook says is when the quarterback throws a pass, it is an illegal forward pass if his entire body is beyond the neutral zone. As you probably looked at these plays over multiple times, one of the plays, just the back foot was still in the neutral zone, but regardless of where it was released from, that makes it a forward pass. And that play is reviewable. So that's a play we can get instant replay involvement in. We did in both of those, replay came in, and actually in the Ole Miss play, we had a flag down for the quarterback being beyond the line but as you could see on it, his back leg was still in the neutral zone, so replay overturned that. Replay can come in on that.
The other part, about the rule on ineligible lineman. By the rule, ineligible linemen can go downfield three yards on a pass and it has to be a pass that crosses the line of scrimmage. And remember, it's the snapshot at the quarterback release. It's not during the pass, but you have to snapshot the play and when the ball first leaves the quarterback's hands, that snapshot is where you have to make the judgment on where the linemen are.
I heard Coach Malzahn talking about this on his section (of the SEC media teleconference). This is a difficult play for the umpire to get. Traditional, drop back passes they handle very well, but plays that present themselves as a run, the umpire is evaluating interior linemen blocks. He's not watching the ball. If he's watching the ball, we got mayhem going on in the interior line. So that's where he's focused. So we don't want the umpire ball-watching but now, you have a pass and then he's got to go back and judge, 'When was it released, where were those linemen?' and this is a difficult call.
I'm going to tell you, I know we referenced a couple plays from our games this past weekend, but this is a national issue. We as coordinators (of officials) have been talking about this play. And we're trying to solve it. Just like the teams, they're looking at film and trying to improve every week, and we're doing the same thing. I think nationally, we're going to address this in our mechanics. You know, we added an 8th official this year which has given us a lot of benefit managing pace of play and that sort of thing. I think by having that extra set of eyes that can manage the inside, we can free up our linesmen and line judge, so we're working through some adjustments to get some help to the umpire, especially on these plays that present as a run and turn out to be a pass.
We actually have a national coordinator call tomorrow that we'll be working to tweak mechanics. But this isn't anything unusual. We do this with things that aren't as high-profile, I guess. We're always working to improve our mechanics to be better officials on the field. And kind of a last note on this, of the two type plays, by rule we can review whether the passer crossed the line or not, but ineligibles downfield are not reviewable, so we have to work hard to get that on the field.
Following up on that, if the rule was changed to be the same as the NFL rule where it's 1 yards instead of 3 yards downfield, would that make it easier to call it?
I guess where I sit, we've got to officiate the rule as it is. I know there was a lot of debate in the offseason. In fact, the rules committee had recommended a change that's very similar to the NFL rule, the NFL rule says, and I'm not an NFL expert, but theirs is that a lineman can go one yard unless he's driving or in contact with another player, then he can drive him. And if he loses contact, he has to stay stationary there. The rule proposed by the rules committee was that a lineman could go one yard, but he could actually drive an opponent up to three yards, but through the playing rules oversight panel, it was kind of tabled and pushed back.
We have to live with three yards downfield. I think there will probably be future discussions on this but right now we're working hard to get it if ineligible linemen go more than three yards downfield.
Is the umpire the only one who can make that call or can others make that call?
That's precisely what, from a national viewpoint, we're talking through right now. By our mechanics, it is primarily the umpire's call. I think based on additional coverage we get from the center judge, and we can free up linesmen and line judges from having to evaluate blocks on tackles, I think we can add responsibility to the linesmen and line judges and make them more aware, especially on plays that present as run but turn out to be passes to give the upmire help.
Today, as our mechanics were, it was primarily the umpire's call. We're going to emphasize getting some support and help and really tweak some of our mechanics where a line judge or a linesman especially on a throw away from them can help on that. I think when we implement that we'll be able to be more successful in being able to call the rule as it exists today.
You mention this is a snapshot when the pass gets released. Wouldn't an easy fix to make this a reviewable play so they can look at it when it is released?
Yeah, there has been discussion around that. That'll actually take a rule change, so there will be nothing we'll be able to do in it this year, but your point is good. The question on replay is we want to be careful getting down into judgment type deals, but there are certain times like targeting where the penalties are so severe we put that into replay.
This is a line, albeit, it's not a physical line on the field, but three yards beyond the line of scrimmage. There is some discussion that we could look at the pros and cons of bringing replay in. To be clear, that won't happen this season.
Ben Jones
TideSports.com Editor
There were two plays this weekend where a guy had part of his body across the line of scrimmage and threw for a touchdown (Alabama-Ole Miss and LSU-Auburn). Some coaches say the problem is lineman blocking downfield, it looks like a run but is a pass, others say 'That's the rule,' how do you weigh those plays and the impact that can those plays can have?
So there are two parts of that, and one is talking about the quarterback. By rule, what the rulebook says is when the quarterback throws a pass, it is an illegal forward pass if his entire body is beyond the neutral zone. As you probably looked at these plays over multiple times, one of the plays, just the back foot was still in the neutral zone, but regardless of where it was released from, that makes it a forward pass. And that play is reviewable. So that's a play we can get instant replay involvement in. We did in both of those, replay came in, and actually in the Ole Miss play, we had a flag down for the quarterback being beyond the line but as you could see on it, his back leg was still in the neutral zone, so replay overturned that. Replay can come in on that.
The other part, about the rule on ineligible lineman. By the rule, ineligible linemen can go downfield three yards on a pass and it has to be a pass that crosses the line of scrimmage. And remember, it's the snapshot at the quarterback release. It's not during the pass, but you have to snapshot the play and when the ball first leaves the quarterback's hands, that snapshot is where you have to make the judgment on where the linemen are.
I heard Coach Malzahn talking about this on his section (of the SEC media teleconference). This is a difficult play for the umpire to get. Traditional, drop back passes they handle very well, but plays that present themselves as a run, the umpire is evaluating interior linemen blocks. He's not watching the ball. If he's watching the ball, we got mayhem going on in the interior line. So that's where he's focused. So we don't want the umpire ball-watching but now, you have a pass and then he's got to go back and judge, 'When was it released, where were those linemen?' and this is a difficult call.
I'm going to tell you, I know we referenced a couple plays from our games this past weekend, but this is a national issue. We as coordinators (of officials) have been talking about this play. And we're trying to solve it. Just like the teams, they're looking at film and trying to improve every week, and we're doing the same thing. I think nationally, we're going to address this in our mechanics. You know, we added an 8th official this year which has given us a lot of benefit managing pace of play and that sort of thing. I think by having that extra set of eyes that can manage the inside, we can free up our linesmen and line judge, so we're working through some adjustments to get some help to the umpire, especially on these plays that present as a run and turn out to be a pass.
We actually have a national coordinator call tomorrow that we'll be working to tweak mechanics. But this isn't anything unusual. We do this with things that aren't as high-profile, I guess. We're always working to improve our mechanics to be better officials on the field. And kind of a last note on this, of the two type plays, by rule we can review whether the passer crossed the line or not, but ineligibles downfield are not reviewable, so we have to work hard to get that on the field.
Following up on that, if the rule was changed to be the same as the NFL rule where it's 1 yards instead of 3 yards downfield, would that make it easier to call it?
I guess where I sit, we've got to officiate the rule as it is. I know there was a lot of debate in the offseason. In fact, the rules committee had recommended a change that's very similar to the NFL rule, the NFL rule says, and I'm not an NFL expert, but theirs is that a lineman can go one yard unless he's driving or in contact with another player, then he can drive him. And if he loses contact, he has to stay stationary there. The rule proposed by the rules committee was that a lineman could go one yard, but he could actually drive an opponent up to three yards, but through the playing rules oversight panel, it was kind of tabled and pushed back.
We have to live with three yards downfield. I think there will probably be future discussions on this but right now we're working hard to get it if ineligible linemen go more than three yards downfield.
Is the umpire the only one who can make that call or can others make that call?
That's precisely what, from a national viewpoint, we're talking through right now. By our mechanics, it is primarily the umpire's call. I think based on additional coverage we get from the center judge, and we can free up linesmen and line judges from having to evaluate blocks on tackles, I think we can add responsibility to the linesmen and line judges and make them more aware, especially on plays that present as run but turn out to be passes to give the upmire help.
Today, as our mechanics were, it was primarily the umpire's call. We're going to emphasize getting some support and help and really tweak some of our mechanics where a line judge or a linesman especially on a throw away from them can help on that. I think when we implement that we'll be able to be more successful in being able to call the rule as it exists today.
You mention this is a snapshot when the pass gets released. Wouldn't an easy fix to make this a reviewable play so they can look at it when it is released?
Yeah, there has been discussion around that. That'll actually take a rule change, so there will be nothing we'll be able to do in it this year, but your point is good. The question on replay is we want to be careful getting down into judgment type deals, but there are certain times like targeting where the penalties are so severe we put that into replay.
This is a line, albeit, it's not a physical line on the field, but three yards beyond the line of scrimmage. There is some discussion that we could look at the pros and cons of bringing replay in. To be clear, that won't happen this season.
Ben Jones
TideSports.com Editor
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