| FTBL New info. regarding Josh Chapman

[alagator]

To follow-up on my concern about the UA officials having done and doing the correct thing regarding the Chapman and Hoover situation, we today have an on-line article from The Tuscaloosa News with the following information...

The University of Alabama football program and one player in particular might soon get caught up in fallout from the ongoing investigation of Hoover High School.

According to a report in the Birmingham News, a grade change made to the transcript of Crimson Tide defensive lineman Josh Chapman allowed him to meet eligibility requirements and accept his scholarship offer.

The change was “an honest mistake," said Richard Bishop, who has sued the school system over his firing as principal.

Meanwhile, Alabama is not performing an investigation because it has not been notified by Hoover of any discrepancies or alterations. (emphasis added)

Chapman practiced with his Crimson Tide teammates Wednesday, the first day of the fall semester at Alabama.

http://www.tidesports.com/article/20070823/NEWS/708230347/1011

Well, heaven forbid our admissions and/or compliance people actually take a proactive role in finding the truth in this situation and doing all that can to protect the interest of the University of Alabama. No, they self-report that they are sitting on the butts and will wait on someone else to tell them there might be some trouble with one of their new players. Yeah, gives me great confidence.

Now, is it more clear why Mal Moore should have been gone from the AD job YEARS ago? Given his history of ignoring proper compliance procedures (his failure to properly report the violation he first-hand observed regarding his personal friend Logan Young), how in the world can anyone of us presume Moore is serious about proactive compliance and how hollow would his admonishment to our compliance people to be more aggressive be?

I would love to hear UA's explanation to the NCAA, if Chapman is likely found ineligible, that the University chose not to investigate the very public information about his fortunate grade change simply because the University never heard anything official from Hoover HS officials. I can see the blank stares of disbelief from the NCAA panel members.

 

[Guest]

I agree gator. I don't know how these things are usually handled, but maybe they will end up investigating. At this point the whole world knows. Why do we have to wait to hear from Hoover to take action?

The part that concerns me even more is this...
"Generally, if a transcript error takes place at the high school level and is later discovered, the college or university is not considered at fault nor in danger of violating NCAA rules unless the student participates in an athletic contest after the school was notified of eligibility concerns."


Unless this is taken care of by next Friday (which we know it won't be) he can't play. We know there are eligibility concerns as mentioned above. The NCAA won't rule on this til after the season, so his year will be blown anyway (all for a stupid half a point). :x

 

[JohnB]

Does anyone know whether or not Hoover sent the first transcript to the NCAA, or only the second? If the NCAA clearinghouse accepted the transcript they received, Bama might be in the clear. I say "might" because the NCAA hasn't been exactly forthright with Bama over the past several years.
Bama did not request that Hoover make the grade change. Their only fault was in accepting Hoover's word for the change without some sort of investigation. And who knows, perhaps they did inquire about the grade change and accepted the explanation as given. They cannot pursue investigations into every recruit...it's just not feasible.
My understanding of the situation was this: Chapman had an 89 for the first part of the school year, and a 90 for the other part. This averaged out to 89.5. The computer was supposed to round up. For whatever reason, i.e., poor programming, it did not.
Bama was led to believe Chapman would have no problems meeting the academic requirements. Therefore, when the first transcript fell short because of the rounded-down B, they questioned it. Hoover looked into the problem and discovered not only Chapman's "error", but also a similar error on 36 other students. I assume these other students also had their grades changed as well. That being the case, I do not see where Bama did anything against the rules.

 

[Guest]

John,

According to the tidesports.com article -
According to the report, the change occurred after Chapman’s initial transcript was submitted, resulting in Alabama’s compliance office notifying Hoover that the player was unexpectedly short of meeting eligibility requirements.

Hoover counselors Cindy Bond and Marley Stephens assumed it was a mistake resulting from a rounding error with the computer system, one of 36 such problems they reported, Bishop said. The counselors then mistakenly averaged the player’s final math grade of 89 with his first-semester grade of a 90 and then rounded up, changing the grade from a B to an A.

The second transcript was filed, which apparently allowed Chapman to be approved by the NCAA Clearinghouse.


You stated "Bama did not request that Hoover make the grade change". Unfortunately we don't know that. I sure hope that is true! You also stated "I do not see where Bama did anything against the rules." Do we really know that? I hate to admit we don't. We haven't exactly been above board in the past, and we don't appear to be taking this too seriously now. :?

 

[Guest]

Gator is far and away the best poster on here IMO. I couldnt agree more with his takes.

The clearinghouse is a bunch of boobs too FWIW! Ive dealt with them first hand. :roll:



..."Whenever we receive information questioning any student-athlete's eligibility, we evaluate that information and take appropriate action according to the circumstances," Alabama spokesman Doug Walker said. You mean this didnt clear up your doubts gator? :lol:

 

[alagator]

Does anyone know whether or not Hoover sent the first transcript to the NCAA, or only the second? If the NCAA clearinghouse accepted the transcript they received, Bama might be in the clear. I say "might" because the NCAA hasn't been exactly forthright with Bama over the past several years.

Whether or not Hoover HS sent the original transcript to the NCAA and/or their clearinghouse is not germane to the point.

UA received both transcripts and it would be our responsibility to question the discrepancy, verify the veracity of the response given to our questioning, and to inform the NCAA that an eligibility question exists.

Bama did not request that Hoover make the grade change. Their only fault was in accepting Hoover's word for the change without some sort of investigation. And who knows, perhaps they did inquire about the grade change and accepted the explanation as given. They cannot pursue investigations into every recruit...it's just not feasible.

We better damn well investigate every recruit where we first inform a high school the transcript for that player does not make him eligible and we almost immediately receive a second transcript with a grade change that fixes that problem.

And our people better damn well make sure the explanation given them is plausible and verify that information with more than one person.

My understanding of the situation was this: Chapman had an 89 for the first part of the school year, and a 90 for the other part. This averaged out to 89.5. The computer was supposed to round up. For whatever reason, i.e., poor programming, it did not.
Bama was led to believe Chapman would have no problems meeting the academic requirements. Therefore, when the first transcript fell short because of the rounded-down B, they questioned it. Hoover looked into the problem and discovered not only Chapman's "error", but also a similar error on 36 other students. I assume these other students also had their grades changed as well. That being the case, I do not see where Bama did anything against the rules.

From reading carefully what the Hoover principal said, paraphrasing that 'the mistake was by the school and not the student,' I think your explanation is not correct.

If this was simply a mathematical error then there would be no 'mistake' in the students favor.

When I read the story to say 'that the final grade of 89 was averaged with the first semester grade of 90' I see where Chapman's FINAL AVERAGE (or GRADE) was 89. This final average would already include the first semester 90 average. More than likely, this would mean his second semester average was only 88 ((90+88)/2=89). Where I see the 'mistake' is someone took this FINAL AVERAGE of 89 and added the first semester grade a second time to come up with the 89.5 number they rounded up to an A-average. That would certainly be a 'mistake made in the students favor.'

I would find it surprising that the 'computer' glitched by not rounding up only 36 grades out of all the students at Hoover HS. I could understand if the computer failed to properly round ALL half-point grades, but that would mean that only 36 students in all of Hoover HS had such a situation exist. The school has what, 3000 students taking 6 courses each. Only 36 letter-grade rounding issues arose out of 18,000 opportunities. Possible, yes. Probable, I am not so sure. Should UA blindly accept (as it so appears) such an explanation, HELL no.

But in the end. This is now very public information. The statement that UA people have no plans to investigate this matter unless and until they are officially informed by Hoover HS is borderline criminal.

As you earlier feared, I am REAL SURE the NCAA would give us the benefit of the doubt if we tried the excuse 'we never knew there was a problem because Hoover officials never sent us a formal letter.'

 

[It Takes Eleven]

How about a little reality and perspective?

http://www.crimsontusks.com/viewtopic.php?p=194645#194645

RTR,

Tim

 

[Wiseace615]

But in the end. This is now very public information. The statement that UA people have no plans to investigate this matter unless and until they are officially informed by Hoover HS is borderline criminal.

I'm hesitant to post again on this thread, but here goes.

The only thing that would be criminal is if they investigate another institution i.e. Hoover High School, before that institution has completed it's own investigation. They have no jurisdiction over Hoover or any other high school to allow them to investigate the matter independently. It would also be criminal for them to discuss the matter, as it would be a breach of student confidentiality. You can read these statements in the copy of the e-mail that BamaDelta received from the athletic department. She posted it on this forum. If you do not believe her, then I would suggest you e-mail them yourself. She said that it only took about 30 minutes for them to respond.

If that is not satisfactory to you, then I'm not sure that anything will, short of the University hiring you to investigate the matter.

Have a Blessed Day!

Clayton

 

[Guest]

But in the end. This is now very public information. The statement that UA people have no plans to investigate this matter unless and until they are officially informed by Hoover HS is borderline criminal.

I'm hesitant to post again on this thread, but here goes.

The only thing that would be criminal is if they investigate another institution i.e. Hoover High School, before that institution has completed it's own investigation. They have no jurisdiction over Hoover or any other high school to allow them to investigate the matter independently. It would also be criminal for them to discuss the matter, as it would be a breach of student confidentiality. You can read these statements in the copy of the e-mail that BamaDelta received from the athletic department. She posted it on this forum. If you do not believe her, then I would suggest you e-mail them yourself. She said that it only took about 30 minutes for them to respond.

If that is not satisfactory to you, then I'm not sure that anything will, short of the University hiring you to investigate the matter.

Have a Blessed Day!

Clayton

Well put. As much as we would all like to see all of this out in the open and resolved as of yesterday, in fact until Hoover does its own in house investigation (and they are investigating a lot more than Chapman's grades) there is little for us to do. Patience is an unusual quality these days, and right now we all need to be seeking it.

 

[Guest]

I understand alagators concerns, and share them to some extent. Personally, I think the best thing to do for now, especially after reading Chris Kings response to BD's email, is that they not allow Chapman to actually play in a game until all of this has been cleared up completly. As I'm sure will be the case.

 

[Wiseace615]

I understand alagators concerns, and share them to some extent. Personally, I think the best thing to do for now, especially after reading Chris Kings response to BD's email, is that they not allow Chapman to actually play in a game until all of this has been cleared up completly. As I'm sure will be the case.

I totally agree. Unfortunately it seems that the University just got pulled into the mess that is boiling over at Hoover. It seems that they are taking the proper course, and if further measures should be taken, I belive that they will when the time is right.

I'm just ready for September 1st to get here.

Roll Tide!

 

[Guest]

Im not even sure who this kid is?? Is he a true freshman? If so he was probably on the redshirt train anyway. Any background on this guy without me having to look it up?

 

[Wiseace615]

Im not even sure who this kid is?? Is he a true freshman? If so he was probably on the redshirt train anyway. Any background on this guy without me having to look it up?

He's a Freshman DT. He's been playing somewhere in the neighborhood of third string I think.

 

[Guest]

If the eligibility issues are resolved in his favor I would expect him to be in the playing rotation at nose tackle, just because we are so thin on the DL.

 

[Guest]

Chapman & Recruiting

Bama's enjoying a banner year recruiting! Enjoy it.

 

[imported_Porter]

This is pretty much repeating what wise & joe said, but... I would say he is currently 3rd string, but pushing Washington hard for 2nd string. He'll definitely get playing time this year.

 

[Guest]

This is pretty much repeating what wise & joe said, but... I would say he is currently 3rd string, but pushing Washington hard for 2nd string. He'll definitely get playing time this year.

If he plays...