šŸˆ Martin/Incognito - another classic case of ESPN flaming the wrong fire

From what I've seen, Incognito is being portrayed as the bad guy and Martin is the victim. They should at least try to get their facts straight before they go on a witch hunt. Maybe I'm wrong here, but critical thinking is becoming a lost skill, people seem to consume what the media shares without any questioning...reminds me of my fathers generation (kinda weird to think the younger generations are equally as gullible).

The main question I had from day 1, why didn't the locker room handle the situation if Incognito was acting like a fool. I can't see a bunch of guys in the locker room standing for that kinda crap...unless things were different that whats being discussed.
 
From what I've seen, Incognito is being portrayed as the bad guy and Martin is the victim. They should at least try to get their facts straight before they go on a witch hunt. Maybe I'm wrong here, but critical thinking is becoming a lost skill, people seem to consume what the media shares without any questioning...reminds me of my fathers generation (kinda weird to think the younger generations are equally as gullible).

The main question I had from day 1, why didn't the locker room handle the situation if Incognito was acting like a fool. I can't see a bunch of guys in the locker room standing for that kinda crap...unless things were different that whats being discussed.

Not nit-picking you Plano and I am not exactly sure what generation your father belongs to BUT are you kidding me? This younger generation has not shown me the ability to think outside of anything spoon fed to them by the lame stream media, a whole generation of sheeple. I bet in your father's generation, this story never goes this far because Martin would have manned up and knocked the T-total Hell out of Incognito and settled things like men, not "victims". This generation is the first I can recollect that has a 6' 6", 320lb. "victim" of bullying. Give me a break.
 
From what I've seen, Incognito is being portrayed as the bad guy and Martin is the victim. They should at least try to get their facts straight before they go on a witch hunt. Maybe I'm wrong here, but critical thinking is becoming a lost skill, people seem to consume what the media shares without any questioning...reminds me of my fathers generation (kinda weird to think the younger generations are equally as gullible).

The main question I had from day 1, why didn't the locker room handle the situation if Incognito was acting like a fool. I can't see a bunch of guys in the locker room standing for that kinda crap...unless things were different that whats being discussed.

Gotcha. That's what I thought, just wasn't sure. And I agree with you. I'm so sick of the fake outrage that people use to to try to hold themselves out as morally superior to everyone else.

I think there's a whole lot more to the story, and I know that there is no context being used in what the media is trotting out there.
 
Not nit-picking you Plano and I am not exactly sure what generation your father belongs to BUT are you kidding me? This younger generation has not shown me the ability to think outside of anything spoon fed to them by the lame stream media, a whole generation of sheeple. I bet in your father's generation, this story never goes this far because Martin would have manned up and knocked the T-total Hell out of Incognito and settled things like men, not "victims". This generation is the first I can recollect that has a 6' 6", 320lb. "victim" of bullying. Give me a break.

I'm sorry but, I immediately thought of this...

In-my-day.jpg
 
Yeah, I should explain that a bit more (guess I was thinking you all were part of our discussions :biggrin_blue:). My father was born in the late 40's and thorough the years we've had some discussions about the differences in generations. Specifically how only a few seemed to question things and when they did, they were labeled hippies, communists, etc. He once told me how f'ed up my generation was, to which I responded - thanks to your generation (yeah I took it as a jab to me :biggrin_blue:). And of course, I'm raising two kids so who knows how this is gonna backfire on me. Maybe I take for granted working with people from all over the US (and World for that matter) being in the tech industry, some of the discussions I've had with people about politics, religion, social things, etc. I knows lots of people who question the media, the government, etc...but I guess that's who I can related to.

I do agree with your comments a bit, see my part about critical thinking skills...I suppose I think my generation (not the current) question things more. I haven't formed an opinion on the current generation yet, I rarely interact with them for any meaningful discussions.
 
Seeing as how we don't know the whole story yet, I am trying not to rush to harsh judgement on either person. Many reports are saying that the Dolphins brass encouraged Incognito's behavior. To me, there is hazing and then there is downright harassment. Hazing is what most NFL teams do: making the rookies pay for dinner, making them wear silly costumes for a day, waking them up at midnight to put shaving cream on them, etc. Whatever. But this goes beyond that. Veteran NFL players from older generations have come forward to say that this sort of "hazing" behavior would never have been tolerated in the first place. For one, Martin is a 2nd year player. For another, the voice mail Incognito left Martin is disgusting, whether he was encouraged to do it or not. So the "why" here is really unclear. Especially when Dolphins management does not appear to have handled it well at all.

On the flip side, yeah, Martin is a big dude, he's a lineman, one would think he could "handle it like a man". But we don't know his mental state. Football players already have rattled up brains by that point, and some have emotional issues with anger, and some find the limelight as a pro athlete unpleasant and invasive and it messes with their mind. Look at the past year or twos' incidents alone. For all we know, Martin was holding it all in, and felt that management would not help him, or he felt genuinely threatened, or maybe he has having an incredibly stressful personal life and this just broke him.

We just don't know what was going in Martin's head, OR Incognito's head for that matter.

So before anyone calls one guy the devil or one guy a p*ssy, back off, and try to put yourself in their shoes. We can all say "oh my daddy would have done this" or "oh I would have done that", but at the end of the day, only those two guys know how they felt and why they did what they did. We can only speculate. Try to keep an open mind.
 
Yeah, I should explain that a bit more (guess I was thinking you all were part of our discussions :biggrin_blue:). My father was born in the late 40's and thorough the years we've had some discussions about the differences in generations. Specifically how only a few seemed to question things and when they did, they were labeled hippies, communists, etc. He once told me how f'ed up my generation was, to which I responded - thanks to your generation (yeah I took it as a jab to me :biggrin_blue:). And of course, I'm raising two kids so who knows how this is gonna backfire on me. Maybe I take for granted working with people from all over the US (and World for that matter) being in the tech industry, some of the discussions I've had with people about politics, religion, social things, etc. I knows lots of people who question the media, the government, etc...but I guess that's who I can related to.

I do agree with your comments a bit, see my part about critical thinking skills...I suppose I think my generation (not the current) question things more. I haven't formed an opinion on the current generation yet, I rarely interact with them for any meaningful discussions.

You should try to more often, don't judge us all by a couple idiots :tennis: We all tend to generalize generations ("Greatest Generation" was the greatest, baby boomers were conformists or hippies, gen x is cynical and greedy, gen y is stupid and entitled, etc) but "generations" cover 20 year gaps. That leaves a TON of room for people who don't fit the "mold" everyone tries to lump 'em into. I just like to be me.
 
A agree Plano, we arrive at the same conclusion I was just a little confused about the generational thing. :)

PhillyGirl,

I get what you are saying, I really do kind of agree with Birdman37 (see we agree every now and then birdturd ;) ). On the other hand, my initial generalization is to lump Martin into the whole Left Coast mantra of being a victim. Certainly there is a sub-culture in the NFL that none of us would understand unless we were in it.
 
What gets me, these are overpaid people, they have a privilege to do something they love and call it a job. I am sure there is a better way of dealing with this other than let the whole country know about it. All boils down to the media for sure. Heck, its only speculation to whats going on there and people are running with the story in their own ways. To me this should of been handled internally, whatever it is. I grow sick of over sensitive media reactions when they were not even a part of what went on. I think everyone here can agree that football is a contact, shat slinging, game, and if your sensitive to words or contact that is physical, don't play it. The powers to be of the Dolphins screwed this up as well, I want to watch them play football, not hear their poor little stories and bullying BS. Both of them need to find employment elsewhere. Including the ironic Incognito. Pffftttttt, freaking soap oprea.
 
Casual observation with the caveat "I don't care about what happens in the NFL."

I'm curious about two things: 1) How the organization described these two as being best friends just a matter of a couple of weeks ago and 2) Martin playing the voicemail to teammates and laughing about it recently.

Something doesn't pass the logic test.
 
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

Really interesting perspective piece by former Dolphin Murtha that gives us a real look at who these guys are from the perspective of a former teammate. It shows Martin not as a victim of Incognito, but perhaps a victim of his own personality and mindset.


I don’t have a dog in this fight.


I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and I’m happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides. I’m only interested in the truth, which is what I’m going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team.


Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, let’s first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another.


From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.
<figure class="narrow right img">
richie-incognito-jonathan-martin2.jpg
<figcaption>Incognito and Martin (Lynne Sladky/AP) </figcaption></figure> Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.


In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.
Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.


That’s where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.


In my experience, he’s not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didn’t attend has been misrepresented.
<figure class="wide blockquote">
Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.

</figure> Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.


The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.


Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and it’s the same everywhere. What people want to call bullying is something that is never going away from football. This is a game of high testosterone, with men hammering their bodies on a daily basis. You are taught to be an aggressive person, and you typically do not make it to the NFL if you are a passive person. There are a few, but it’s very hard. Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.


<figure class="wide center img">
lydon-murtha-ryan-tannehill.jpg
<figcaption>Quarterback Ryan Tannehill (17) said Wednesday that he was surprised by the bullying allegations, a sentiment shared by ex-Dolphin Lydon Murtha, seen here in a 2012 preseason game. (Charles Trainor Jr./Getty Images) </figcaption></figure> The most unfortunate thing about this situation is the consequence it will have on the careers of both men. Richie’s marked himself now as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that could be the end of it. Martin is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but no more likely than Incognito to return to the NFL if he wants. In going to the media with his problem, Martin broke the code, and it shows that he’s not there for his teammates and he’s not standing up for himself. There might be a team that gives him a chance because he’s a good person, but the players will reject him. They’ll think, If I say one thing he’s going to the press. He’ll never earn the respect of teammates and personnel in the NFL because he didn’t take care of business the right way.


What fans should understand is that every day in the NFL there are battles between players worse than what’s being portrayed. This racial slur would be a blip on the radar if everything that happens in the locker room went public. But all over the league, problems are hashed out in house. Either you talk about it or you get physical. But at the end of the day, you handle it indoors.
 
You should try to more often, don't judge us all by a couple idiots :tennis: We all tend to generalize generations ("Greatest Generation" was the greatest, baby boomers were conformists or hippies, gen x is cynical and greedy, gen y is stupid and entitled, etc) but "generations" cover 20 year gaps. That leaves a TON of room for people who don't fit the "mold" everyone tries to lump 'em into. I just like to be me.

I've deifintely got the cynical, not so much the greedy.
 
A lot of the Fins would completely disagree with you. They're supporting Incognito and are pissed at Martin.

Honestly I dont care what they think. When someone calls another person a "half breed n*gger" it's pretty much an open and shut case that that person is a piece of sh*t. But we have hear a guy who was suspended by Nebraska repeatedly and then finally kicked off the team. He then went to Oregon and got kicked off the team before playing a game. He once attempted to break a defensive lineman's ankle during a game... I mean I really don't need any more evidence to know I think he's an asshole and a douche bag.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom