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Michael Casagrande | mcasagrande@al.com
What best-selling author learned telling Nick Saban's story in podcast series
By Michael Casagrande
mcasagrande@al.com
James Andrew Miller's interview subjects cover a staggering range. He once profiled Nancy Reagan for Life Magazine and has penned several New York Times best sellers.
Perhaps best known for his deep dive on ESPN "Those Guys Have All the Fun, Inside the World of ESPN," Miller has spent considerable time in the past year telling stories in audio form. His podcast series "Origins" debuted in 2017 with an immersive look at Curb Your Enthusiasm before taking a six-episode look back inside ESPN.
For Season 3, he set out to trace the story of Nick Saban and what he's done with the Alabama football program. The third of three episodes was released Monday featuring interviews with Saban and those who surround the 66-year old football coach. His wife Terry Saban plays a prominent role along with strength coach Scott Cochran, former players Barrett Jones and Greg McElroy along with Lane Kiffin and friend Joe Girardi, the former New York Yankees manager.
The same month Nick Saban is on the cover of ESPN the Magazine and the network is dedicating four one-hour behind-the-scenes episodes to Alabama on ESPN2, this project is a little different.
It captures the broad strokes of who Saban is while drilling down on specific details and anecdotes from inside the sometimes-secretive program. Kiffin discussed his abrupt departure from the Alabama program less than a week before the 2016 season ended in the national title game.
Miller, a journalist with degrees from both Oxford University and Harvard, spent some time in Tuscaloosa with Saban to discuss life, football and how he got to this place.
Miller spoke with AL.com recently to talk about the project, how it changed from the original idea and what he learned from looking into what made Saban the coach he is today.
You can listen to the three-part podcast on various platforms including iTunes and the Cadence 13 website.
The conversation with Miller edited for length and clarity.
AL.com: Where did you get the idea to feature Alabama football and Nick Saban?
James Andrew Miller: "Well, I'm a big college football fan and wrote a three-part series in New York Times on college football. Obviously, working on covering ESPN and working on the ESPN book, college football has always been something to report on. In terms of this podcast, last year we did a series on College GameDay. I just felt like I wanted to do something else with college football and I thought Alabama would be a great opportunity to examine what makes them so successful."
AL.com How did you arrange it logistically?
James Andrew Miller: "Just the usual requests, working together and just trying to figure it all out. People don't realize the details and logistics involved with a podcast. It's all just making sure there's a process there that would work for both of us."
AL.com: Was it your first time in Tuscaloosa?
JAM: "I had been there once before but that had been years ago. So, it was great to be back. It was just really impressive."
AL.com: What was your biggest takeaway from the whole process?
JAM: "I think it's interesting understand how everything fits together. You might think that it's all about physical training or weeks on the field. And you have Nick Saban, you have Scotty Cochran, you have Terry Saban, you have the whole -- the nutritionist. So, I think the idea that a comprehensive holistic approach to the athletes including the classwork and getting them ready to graduate and be functioning adults."
AL.com: Outside of Nick Saban, who was the most interesting person you interviewed?
JAM: "I had heard about Terry Saban and read a lot about her, but I thought she was incredibly fascinating. She has a beautiful way of speaking. It's just, you get a real sense, not only of how important their partnership is, but I think talking with other players, just about how important she is to the team. I thought it was great to have her be a part of this. I'm very grateful that she cooperated."
AL.com: And Lane Kiffin was in there too.
JAM: "Yeah, that was kind of interesting because I thought there was a very powerful duality to a lot of the things Lane said. I think he was trying to be very respectful ... I think there things in Episodes 2 and 3, there was stuff in there that you could see it plays on a lot of different levels."
AL.com: Were there any people that were difficult to pin down for interviews?
JAM: "I mean, it's not like people sit around waiting to be interviewed. I think everything takes effort. That's why I'm so appreciative."
AL.com: Scott Cochran is a pretty big figure around here. Did that surprise you?
JAM: "I watched him on YouTube before and I had heard about him, but listen, he's definitely his own guy and I think that there's a reason why he's so popular and I think it's kind of an amazing way he threads the needle because you can tell that he's so passionate about the way he does his business and yet at the same time, he's equally passionate about the fact Nick Saban is the magic ingredient. He said to me at one point 'If I'm not here, Nick Saban is still winning. So, I don't think there's a lot of hubris on Scotty Cochran's part and it's a pretty impressive cooperation that they have between each other."
The conversation moved on to the audience's reception to the podcast.
JAM: "What I'm finding now is people who don't even like Alabama football, like they're from the Big Ten or whatever. But more importantly, people who are outside sports. With Episode 2, you're really talking about the fact that Saban puts on a master class in psychology, motivation, leadership and team building -- not just athletic team, but anywhere. So, I had a guy who manages a 100-person salesforce write me a note saying that he came up with a whole new direction that he's going to do with his salesforce.
"So, I think that is in a way, one of the measures of a guy like Saban. When you start to realize, P.S., it's football. You know what I mean? This is about life. This is about making boys into men. This is about making them responsible figures in society and this is also about the difference between discipline and punishment and motivation. You're changing behavior and incentivizing people and then, P.S., it's also, at the same time, just as important because it's about winning. I've just been very gratified this past week to hear how people have no interest in football or Alabama talking about the qualities that they talk about here."
"By the way, how about Barrett. Barrett, oh my God. Like are you kidding me? The guy should run for office ... I interview people for a living and this guy speaks in complete paragraphs. It's just fantastic."
Thanks for your time. I was curious to see what you thought about everything coming out of the experience as somewhat of an outsider in Alabama.
JAM: "Again, I come back to this idea that I went down there thinking this was about football and I came away thinking, P.S., it's about football. It really is. It's that whole approach and that whole world down there. The culture they've created and the dynamics with the players. I'm sorry, but it's just about way, way more. And a lot more in front of football."
By Michael Casagrande
mcasagrande@al.com
James Andrew Miller's interview subjects cover a staggering range. He once profiled Nancy Reagan for Life Magazine and has penned several New York Times best sellers.
Perhaps best known for his deep dive on ESPN "Those Guys Have All the Fun, Inside the World of ESPN," Miller has spent considerable time in the past year telling stories in audio form. His podcast series "Origins" debuted in 2017 with an immersive look at Curb Your Enthusiasm before taking a six-episode look back inside ESPN.
For Season 3, he set out to trace the story of Nick Saban and what he's done with the Alabama football program. The third of three episodes was released Monday featuring interviews with Saban and those who surround the 66-year old football coach. His wife Terry Saban plays a prominent role along with strength coach Scott Cochran, former players Barrett Jones and Greg McElroy along with Lane Kiffin and friend Joe Girardi, the former New York Yankees manager.
The same month Nick Saban is on the cover of ESPN the Magazine and the network is dedicating four one-hour behind-the-scenes episodes to Alabama on ESPN2, this project is a little different.
It captures the broad strokes of who Saban is while drilling down on specific details and anecdotes from inside the sometimes-secretive program. Kiffin discussed his abrupt departure from the Alabama program less than a week before the 2016 season ended in the national title game.
Miller, a journalist with degrees from both Oxford University and Harvard, spent some time in Tuscaloosa with Saban to discuss life, football and how he got to this place.
Miller spoke with AL.com recently to talk about the project, how it changed from the original idea and what he learned from looking into what made Saban the coach he is today.
You can listen to the three-part podcast on various platforms including iTunes and the Cadence 13 website.
The conversation with Miller edited for length and clarity.
AL.com: Where did you get the idea to feature Alabama football and Nick Saban?
James Andrew Miller: "Well, I'm a big college football fan and wrote a three-part series in New York Times on college football. Obviously, working on covering ESPN and working on the ESPN book, college football has always been something to report on. In terms of this podcast, last year we did a series on College GameDay. I just felt like I wanted to do something else with college football and I thought Alabama would be a great opportunity to examine what makes them so successful."
AL.com How did you arrange it logistically?
James Andrew Miller: "Just the usual requests, working together and just trying to figure it all out. People don't realize the details and logistics involved with a podcast. It's all just making sure there's a process there that would work for both of us."
AL.com: Was it your first time in Tuscaloosa?
JAM: "I had been there once before but that had been years ago. So, it was great to be back. It was just really impressive."
AL.com: What was your biggest takeaway from the whole process?
JAM: "I think it's interesting understand how everything fits together. You might think that it's all about physical training or weeks on the field. And you have Nick Saban, you have Scotty Cochran, you have Terry Saban, you have the whole -- the nutritionist. So, I think the idea that a comprehensive holistic approach to the athletes including the classwork and getting them ready to graduate and be functioning adults."
AL.com: Outside of Nick Saban, who was the most interesting person you interviewed?
JAM: "I had heard about Terry Saban and read a lot about her, but I thought she was incredibly fascinating. She has a beautiful way of speaking. It's just, you get a real sense, not only of how important their partnership is, but I think talking with other players, just about how important she is to the team. I thought it was great to have her be a part of this. I'm very grateful that she cooperated."
AL.com: And Lane Kiffin was in there too.
JAM: "Yeah, that was kind of interesting because I thought there was a very powerful duality to a lot of the things Lane said. I think he was trying to be very respectful ... I think there things in Episodes 2 and 3, there was stuff in there that you could see it plays on a lot of different levels."
AL.com: Were there any people that were difficult to pin down for interviews?
JAM: "I mean, it's not like people sit around waiting to be interviewed. I think everything takes effort. That's why I'm so appreciative."
AL.com: Scott Cochran is a pretty big figure around here. Did that surprise you?
JAM: "I watched him on YouTube before and I had heard about him, but listen, he's definitely his own guy and I think that there's a reason why he's so popular and I think it's kind of an amazing way he threads the needle because you can tell that he's so passionate about the way he does his business and yet at the same time, he's equally passionate about the fact Nick Saban is the magic ingredient. He said to me at one point 'If I'm not here, Nick Saban is still winning. So, I don't think there's a lot of hubris on Scotty Cochran's part and it's a pretty impressive cooperation that they have between each other."
The conversation moved on to the audience's reception to the podcast.
JAM: "What I'm finding now is people who don't even like Alabama football, like they're from the Big Ten or whatever. But more importantly, people who are outside sports. With Episode 2, you're really talking about the fact that Saban puts on a master class in psychology, motivation, leadership and team building -- not just athletic team, but anywhere. So, I had a guy who manages a 100-person salesforce write me a note saying that he came up with a whole new direction that he's going to do with his salesforce.
"So, I think that is in a way, one of the measures of a guy like Saban. When you start to realize, P.S., it's football. You know what I mean? This is about life. This is about making boys into men. This is about making them responsible figures in society and this is also about the difference between discipline and punishment and motivation. You're changing behavior and incentivizing people and then, P.S., it's also, at the same time, just as important because it's about winning. I've just been very gratified this past week to hear how people have no interest in football or Alabama talking about the qualities that they talk about here."
"By the way, how about Barrett. Barrett, oh my God. Like are you kidding me? The guy should run for office ... I interview people for a living and this guy speaks in complete paragraphs. It's just fantastic."
Thanks for your time. I was curious to see what you thought about everything coming out of the experience as somewhat of an outsider in Alabama.
JAM: "Again, I come back to this idea that I went down there thinking this was about football and I came away thinking, P.S., it's about football. It really is. It's that whole approach and that whole world down there. The culture they've created and the dynamics with the players. I'm sorry, but it's just about way, way more. And a lot more in front of football."
