🏈 Is it a fair generalization to say that ...

[musso]

while a 3-4 defense invites an opposing offense to attack the edges, a 4-3 defense tries to keep the ball in the middle of the field?

I ask because a base 3-4 places the DEs just inside the OTs and utilizes a massive NT and typically two large ILBs (e.g. Cody, McClain, Hightower). Saban has talked a lot over the years about clogging the middle of the field and trying to get offenses to move sideline to sideline. I recently listened to a Saban interview after the VT game (might have been the post-game presser) when he said that he really liked the interior of our defense - Cody, McClain, Hightower, Woodson, and Barron - all are big, physical guys who are able to force things to the outside. In this interview, he went on to say that the most important task of any defense is to defend the middle of the field.

Now, I look at how a typical 4-3 lines up and the typical sizes of its players. The DTs are usually lined up opposite of the OGs, sometimes lined up just outside of them, while the DEs are usually lined up well outside of the opposing OTs. Can you say that the role of the DEs, besides rushing the passer on passing downs, are to keep the ball-carriers to the inside of them, so that the ball-carriers flow towards the LBs?

 

[kc]

Bigger chunks of yardage and plays seem to come from the middle of the field. Yeah you do get chunks on the flys/flag patterns down the sideline but that is not ever play. The post patterns will hurt and so will the under stuff to the tight end. Line clogging the middle also prevents screens/slips etc to the mid.

Example: the last two minutes of the Pats game Monday night.

You can pinch offensive players to the sideline where as in the middle it is wide open for bigger plays and bigger yardage. Just what I think. I am no master mind:smile:

 

[musso]

kc,

i didn't follow you. to which defensive allignment were each of your statements referring?

also, i don't follow the NFL near as closely as i follow college, but i did hear the ESPN NFL crew saying a few days ago that New England had switched this season to a 4-3. don't know how that factors in to your points though.

 

[BAMAFSTBACK]

Gonna show my x's and o's ignorance here but what kind of defense did Joe Kines run in 05? That defense was SICK.

 

[kc]

kc,

i didn't follow you. to which defensive allignment were each of your statements referring?

also, i don't follow the NFL near as closely as i follow college, but i did hear the ESPN NFL crew saying a few days ago that New England had switched this season to a 4-3. don't know how that factors in to your points though.

I was talking mainly about the 3-4. I have limit knowledge of it as I was always in a 4-3 in HS. I think it is mainly what personnel you want to put on the field. Think Saban likes having three lineman that can do the job of four. I like having the ability of having an LB to come up and become the fourth lineman and not just have a pass rush specialist that comes in the game. Harder to plan for imo. I have had a hard time grasping the defense myself. I wondered about the edges as well in a 3-4 but hopefully our DB's will handle that.

As far as New England..they won and they were the ones moving the ball down the field (In the middle) on a 4-3 Buffalo def. That was what I was meant. They scored two td's in under two minutes by attacking the middle of the field.

BTW love the New England throwback uni's

 

[musso]

Gonna show my x's and o's ignorance here but what kind of defense did Joe Kines run in 05? That defense was SICK.

i remember people calling it a 3-3-5, but it looked more like a 4-3 to me. it was sick indeed!

 

[kc]

Gonna show my x's and o's ignorance here but what kind of defense did Joe Kines run in 05? That defense was SICK.

They seemed to run a prevent all the time(always allowing underneath but nothing over the top)...I think it was the personnel on the field that made that defense what it was. That D was loaded.

Harper had two nice interceptions the other night and Demico is something else. That D played together for awhile and was full of talent. I can name three in the pros, two above and Anderson that plays for the bears.

 

[BAMAFSTBACK]

. That D was LOADED.

Indeed. The 05 UT game and "The Hit" lives on forever.

 

[UAgrad93]

I believe both the 3-4 and 4-3 are equally confusing for either getting to the edge or attacking the middle. The personnel one throws out there is really what determines the success. It all boils down to angles for the OL as to how successful they will be running the ball. In a 4-3, you won't automatically play the DTs head up the guards. You move them according to strength of the formation and then pinch and slant just to really cause some chaos.

 

[musso]

I believe both the 3-4 and 4-3 are equally confusing for either getting to the edge or attacking the middle. The personnel one throws out there is really what determines the success. It all boils down to angles for the OL as to how successful they will be running the ball. In a 4-3, you won't automatically play the DTs head up the guards. You move them according to strength of the formation and then pinch and slant just to really cause some chaos.

so are you saying then that a 4-3 possesses no schematic intent to direct offensive traffic one way or the other?

 

[psychojoe]

You will even see some 4-3 alignments that line up one of the tackles head on the center, putting an extra DL towards the string side of the filed. I'd guess that this would gain advantage in funnelling plays to the weak side.

 

[TidePride50]

Really it all depends on your run fit philosophy on defense of whether you want force on the edges or wrong arm and bounce it to the sidelines. The majority of your pro and colleges wrong arm and want the ball bounced to the edges because they have the speed to contain and run it down. A lot of highschools are not blessed with that type of speed and want the play forced or turned in back towards the defense where there is more help.

 

[UAgrad93]

Musso, I coached with a 4-3 guy for 14 years and to him it wasn't about trying to funnel the offense in a certain area. He felt confident that his front 7 could contain either the inside game or the outside game. Now if theirs were better than yours it didn't matter. You try to study hints, tips, or tendencies that OCs will sometimes get into. After studying tendencies, you slant to strength or away, to the field or boundary, you pinch the tackles, twists, etc.