📡 Is Alabama in the lead to land Tennessee star LB transfer, Henry To’o To’o? - RollTideWire

[1CrimsonTider]

Some pretty transparent quotes from his dad, condensed from BOL.

quote:
“Pete Golding and Coach (Nick) Saban, they’ve been reaching out... While I can’t speak for Henry, I know after all our discussions he wants to stay in the SEC. And I think he’s leaning towards Alabama. I mean heavily leaning towards Alabama.

“All the other SEC schools reached out to him, too. But one thing that we talked about was that we chose Tennessee the first time when we should have came to Alabama, so let’s not make this mistake twice.”

quote:
“I got a lot more respect for Coach Saban now... Coach Saban is a man of his word. He’s truly about the player. And the reason why I say that is he advised Henry to wait until April comes around, because the NCAA one-time transfer rule hasn’t passed. It was supposed to pass in January, the day after the national title. And it didn’t. They set it back on the table until April. And Coach Saban told us to wait until April and if this thing passes he was like there’s one more hurdle, which is the SEC needs to pass in-conference transfers also. For him to do that, I’ve got a newfound level of respect for the man. He’s one of those guys that’s truly for his players. I told Henry why not play for a man that’s looking out for your best interests.”

quote:
Like I said, Coach Saban is a man of his word and is truly, truly about the player. And I appreciate that. It will depend on the advice and counsel he gets from Coach Saban.

quote:
“There’s a rumor going around that Henry is coming back to the West Coast. That’s a nay. That’s not going to happen.

 

[Tidestalker]

If a player commits......should stay and play...but

If a Coach and school commit to each other, should they play it out as well?

 

[Tidestalker]

From my perspective it's the "but" we can't ignore.

Since we're talking about UT here let's take it a step farther. Assuming post-season penalties are on the horizon do you think a player should be held to their commitment if the staff that signed them falls under NCAA penalty?

I'm taking this to an extreme here but let's change schools and use LSU as an example. Considering what's happening there if a player doesn't want to be a part of that culture, should they have the ability to leave?

Sadly, I don't believe there's a line to be drawn to make this "black and white." There are far too many gray areas we see these kids deal with. In my opinion, Penn State was a "black and white" story: those kids should have been allowed to transfer and play immediately. But those are few and far between.

Very well said!

 

[mando]

How do we know this kid wasn't one of the recruits that the Viles were giving money to?

 

[BamaFan334]

If a Coach and school commit to each other, should they play it out as well?

They have the ability to can a coach, but not a player.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

They have the ability to can a coach, but not a player.

Thats not really true....they can declare a player ineligible
If we are talking about ncaa

 

[50+yeartidefan]

If a Coach and school commit to each other, should they play it out as well?

My initial thought...yes
But...
In thinking about it....
There are many reasons for a no....maybe not...
If you are a Hurts.....behind a Tua....such situations....

so....i guess.... no...
Guy has to do whats best for his situation....wouldnt you-think
Guess this is what Mac faced and stayed...Hurts faced and left...
Little different...but....
Kinda waffling on this....

 

[Tidestalker]

They have the ability to can a coach, but not a player.

If the Power 5 football is "they", I believe you're correct... On other levels, guys are cut all the time. So I don't know if you'd take an ethical hard line on guys transferring in P5's vs smaller schools? For me, it doesn't change the outlook.

 

[BamaFan334]

If the Power 5 football is "they", I believe you're correct... On other levels, guys are cut all the time. So I don't know if you'd take an ethical hard line on guys transferring in P5's vs smaller schools? For me, it doesn't change the outlook.

I meant more from a school taking a scholarship away from a player for no reason or even for bad play. They can fire a coach for not getting good results, but they can't do that to a player.

Now a player may want to transfer or get "guidance", but if he wanted to stay at said school, there is nothing they can do unless rules are broken or bad conduct.

To me, if you transfer, you never bought in to the school you were at. How could you play at Georgia and then transfer to Auburn or Florida (using them due to Nick Marshall and Brenton Cox as examples). You're supposed to hate those schools, they're rivals. It just goes to show you that the focus is solely business, and they don't care for their programs, yet want those programs to provide them with everything for free, on top of paying them. It's all going downhill anyways, so that's a conversation for another day. All that being said, they should be made to stay where they CHOOSE to play, unless you're dealing with a situation like Penn State, Tennessee, or LSU. An innocent player should not have to deal with the bad decisions of a program or another player (talking about being on probation) though in my eyes. But playing time, that should not be a reason. All it's doing is teaching kids to quit and go somewhere it's easier to get what you want.

 

[TerryP]

If a Coach and school commit to each other, should they play it out as well?

If a coach is moving up in his career he should be held to his original contract, eh?

 

[Tidestalker]

Off a coach is moving up in his career he should be held to his original contract, eh?

My question was directed to @50+yeartidefan in regards to his direct statement... Which he went on to clarify.

But if you'd like to answer my question - Feel free... Then I can answer yours

 

[Tidestalker]

I meant more from a school taking a scholarship away from a player for no reason or even for bad play. They can fire a coach for not getting good results, but they can't do that to a player.

Now a player may want to transfer or get "guidance", but if he wanted to stay at said school, there is nothing they can do unless rules are broken or bad conduct.

Just simply not true on the wide scale of college athletics. Kid's scholarships aren't renewed on lower D1 levels & D2 all the time. I believe P5 football programs came to the agreement to do "4 year scholarships", mostly as a recruiting ploy... Because if 1 school does it but the next won't, where's the kid going to go.

To me, if you transfer, you never bought in to the school you were at. How could you play at Georgia and then transfer to Auburn or Florida (using them due to Nick Marshall and Brenton Cox as examples). You're supposed to hate those schools, they're rivals. It just goes to show you that the focus is solely business, and they don't care for their programs, yet want those programs to provide them with everything for free, on top of paying them. It's all going downhill anyways, so that's a conversation for another day. All that being said, they should be made to stay where they CHOOSE to play, unless you're dealing with a situation like Penn State, Tennessee, or LSU. An innocent player should not have to deal with the bad decisions of a program or another player (talking about being on probation) though in my eyes. But playing time, that should not be a reason. All it's doing is teaching kids to quit and go somewhere it's easier to get what you want.

We just disagree. Do you really believe Jalen Hurts didn't buy into Alabama? You do realize that had he stayed at UA, there was little to no chance his draft value would have been what it became at OU.

It amazes me to see a lot of free market supporters who want to limit these young men's ability to maximize their current and potential value, despite that value being directly tied to adults who are constantly seeking out better opportunities despite their own current agreements.

Relationships are a huge part of life, business, planning, etc. After the recruitment of players, we see coaches leave or get fired for the betterment of business all the time, but the players who ultimately create that business interest are expected to not seek out better opportunities? Doesn't that just seem a little hypocritical?

 

[TerryP]

If a Coach and school commit to each other, should they play it out as well?

You know my opinion about this subject and your compare/contrast is still without foundation.

 

[BamaFan334]

Just simply not true on the wide scale of college athletics. Kid's scholarships aren't renewed on lower D1 levels & D2 all the time. I believe P5 football programs came to the agreement to do "4 year scholarships", mostly as a recruiting ploy... Because if 1 school does it but the next won't, where's the kid going to go.



We just disagree. Do you really believe Jalen Hurts didn't buy into Alabama? You do realize that had he stayed at UA, there was little to no chance his draft value would have been what it became at OU.

It amazes me to see a lot of free market supporters who want to limit these young men's ability to maximize their current and potential value, despite that value being directly tied to adults who are constantly seeking out better opportunities despite their own current agreements.

Relationships are a huge part of life, business, planning, etc. After the recruitment of players, we see coaches leave or get fired for the betterment of business all the time, but the players who ultimately create that business interest are expected to not seek out better opportunities? Doesn't that just seem a little hypocritical?

First off, I'm not talking about 100% here, so the smaller D2 schools, that's different due to funds and other instances. Willing to bet that exact practice has been decreased dramatically in the last number of years. No system is perfect, especially this day in age when someone is always trying to cause trouble. For the most part though, schools honor four years.

Second off, Hurts is a complete different situation. He graduated and went to another school. That's different than Tate Martell and Justin Fields for example. Hurts held up his end of the bargain fulfilled his agreement and Alabama held up their end with him.

I'm not trying to be combative here or come at you in a bad way, but throughout the years I've realized you're the kind of mindset that has turned college football into Team Me. So many of your posts are about business and these 18 and 19 year olds only looking out for themselves and taking amateur status away from the game. So many things we all love about college football is now ruined because of that business only team me mindset. Jaylen Waddle is the perfect example of everyone else telling him "no" "save your future" "sit" "it's nit worth it", but not giving a crap about what he stood for and wanted. He had to deal with that negative response to HIS decision. He played because of his team, love for Alabama, and love for the game. Not what you and others may see in money.

College athletes are amateur. No matter how you or I or anyone else wants to swing it, they're amateurs. I 100% agree that grown men in the form of agents, money hungry adult family members, and bad decisions caused it all to go bad. A business decision can only be made when it's business. The NFL is proven that you can be a zero star nobody and be All Pro. It's your mindset in the end, but many will have you believe it's someone else's fault. Coaches? They aren't amateurs. They are in charge of hundreds of players and staff, and in Saban's case, an entire university and town as football brings so many jobs and money to the town and school. That's a little different than a student/athlete basically in charge of themselves. A coach is a business decision. Now I'm 100% with you in that a lot of coaches leave and it just looks awful. That's just the way the cookie crumbles then. Coaches invest in players to get their job done. Players invest in their team and education. Or atleast should.

 

[Elderfalsedemigod]

It wasn’t the players who demanded and got multi million dollar TV, equipment, apparel and branded items from golf balls to oven mitts contracts and deals. When there were limited media opportunities and budgets in the thousands of dollars all this purity and amateurism was somewhat true and players were satisfied with the room board and education (with the occasional $$$ handshake, used camaro and off the book summer job) that they were getting. With all the money involved keeping the players at status quo is an unsustainable business model. The players didn’t turn it into a business the demand for the product and the entities supplying that demand did. The genie has been out of the bottle for a while and is only growing stronger. JMO

 

[BamaFan334]

It wasn’t the players who demanded and got multi million dollar TV, equipment, apparel and branded items from golf balls to oven mitts contracts and deals. When there were limited media opportunities and budgets in the thousands of dollars all this purity and amateurism was somewhat true and players were satisfied with the room board and education (with the occasional $$$ handshake, used camaro and off the book summer job) that they were getting. With all the money involved keeping the players at status quo is an unsustainable business model. The players didn’t turn it into a business the demand for the product and the entities supplying that demand did. The genie has been out of the bottle for a while and is only growing stronger. JMO

They're amateur though. That's the only thing that matters. They are compensated for their efforts. Who else gets the chance to make millions of dollars without a college degree at 20? There is over a trillion in debt and ruined lives due to loans taken out for school, and these guys are free and clear of that. What about the walkons going through the same practices and putting in the same amount of time and effort only to pay their own way. What about those guys? I agree that the genie is out of the bottle and greed has killed the golden goose. Look at our own athletic department turning Bryant-Denny into Disney World.

By your measure, a business owner should be paying his employees as much as he pays himself because they're the ones making the money. Also, all these players wanting millions don't seem to give a crap about the underpaid manufactures of Nike making their shoes while they make millions on endorsements and the workers make $5 a week. Funny how the "we need to be paid" stops with them.

 

[94 Grad]

If a Coach and school commit to each other, should they play it out as well?

The coach and the school have a contract outlining the terms either one of them can terminate the contract at a cost.

The player can also terminate his contract to a school anytime he wants and transfer to the school. His cost is a year of eligibility as outlined in his contract with the school.

 

[Tidestalker]

First off, I'm not talking about 100% here, so the smaller D2 schools, that's different due to funds and other instances. Willing to bet that exact practice has been decreased dramatically in the last number of years. No system is perfect, especially this day in age when someone is always trying to cause trouble. For the most part though, schools honor four years.

Non Power 5 D'1s, FCS, and D2's. Not a huge deal, but in many circles the Non P5 FBS schools are still competing for quite a few of the same players. And I agree, no system is perfect. The NCAA produces a fantastic product, and has some obvious flaws

Second off, Hurts is a complete different situation. He graduated and went to another school. That's different than Tate Martell and Justin Fields for example. Hurts held up his end of the bargain fulfilled his agreement and Alabama held up their end with him.

I guess we could have differentiated here... Looks like you're fine with a grad transfer. So am I. I just believe other dudes who get beat out like Jalen did, or endure a coaching change, or just want a more likely opportunity to get on the field should get that opportunity once without penalty. I don't look at Taulia any different than Jalen in regard to their intentions... The kid wanted to be at Alabama, represent Alabama, and believed in the system. Jalen had some good fortune of a bad QB crop in front of him, so he stayed & played longer. Taulia had stiffer competition (Like.. Tua ). Which in a way shows he really wanted to be at UA, it just didn't work out.

I'm not trying to be combative here or come at you in a bad way, but throughout the years I've realized you're the kind of mindset that has turned college football into Team Me. So many of your posts are about business and these 18 and 19 year olds only looking out for themselves and taking amateur status away from the game.

Team Me should be a huge part of every decision in life, including team sports. Yes that's inconvenient to hear and may tug at the fabric of a program that is near and dear, but it's no different than the decisions you make every day for the benefit of yourself and your family. While it's not true that every college athlete has the legitimate ability to make $$ post college, you would have to be a fool to believe that the student-athletes in the Alabama football program aren't at least in that ball park, and aren't directly tied to their on field production/playing time/relationship with the coaching staff. For some of these dudes, this is absolutely molding what will be their highest potential earning years of their lives. So to not consider what's best for yourself and your future would be short sighted. (I'd like to add that's what makes Saban so special... Is to find the most talented dudes who can be very unselfish and team oriented... It's truly special). As far as my posts, I feel like pointing that out to you is like saying the sky is blue. You know it, but maybe you've got your head in the sand? And pull it out hoping it's still 1997 when players stayed 4 years, contracts were honored, and QB's didn't have 9 figure careers.

So many things we all love about college football is now ruined because of that business only team me mindset. Jaylen Waddle is the perfect example of everyone else telling him "no" "save your future" "sit" "it's nit worth it", but not giving a crap about what he stood for and wanted. He had to deal with that negative response to HIS decision. He played because of his team, love for Alabama, and love for the game. Not what you and others may see in money.

What is ruined though? Yes times have changed and things are different, but ruined seems strong. I'm assuming you enjoyed this year! In regards to Waddle, you're absolutely correct. He is a shining example of a dude who waited it out, played through injury, and put the team first. He is truly what "it's all about". At the same time, I think where we disagree, is that I wouldn't have looked down on him (or wanted him to be punished) if he wanted to leave. I believe he should have had the option to go somewhere else if he preferred it, without punishment.

College athletes are amateur. No matter how you or I or anyone else wants to swing it, they're amateurs. I 100% agree that grown men in the form of agents, money hungry adult family members, and bad decisions caused it all to go bad. A business decision can only be made when it's business. The NFL is proven that you can be a zero star nobody and be All Pro. It's your mindset in the end, but many will have you believe it's someone else's fault. Coaches? They aren't amateurs. They are in charge of hundreds of players and staff, and in Saban's case, an entire university and town as football brings so many jobs and money to the town and school. That's a little different than a student/athlete basically in charge of themselves. A coach is a business decision. Now I'm 100% with you in that a lot of coaches leave and it just looks awful. That's just the way the cookie crumbles then. Coaches invest in players to get their job done. Players invest in their team and education. Or atleast should.

Again, I'm surprised that you don't want to acknowledge how important the "amateur years" are to their professional careers. When you say "a bad business decision can only be made when it's business", you're basically saying choosing Texas over Alabama has no potential impact on your NFL value. I'm kind of befuddled by this. But anyhow, I'm not for limiting coaches ability to come & go as they please with whatever buyouts or clauses that get addressed in their contracts, or not look for better opportunities, or get fired for bad production. I just think the players should be afforded a one time transfer if they believe they can maximize their own potential as well... Mostly due to how quickly schools turn over staffs and the reality of what the "professionals" have molded college football into... Which is a business first mentality.

 

[Tidestalker]

The coach and the school have a contract outlining the terms either one of them can terminate the contract at a cost.

Yep. We completely agree

The player can also terminate his contract to a school anytime he wants and transfer to the school. His cost is a year of eligibility as outlined in his contract with the school.

And this is mostly true. I just believe the players "contract" should be adapted in a manner more like the coaches, to allow them to seek out a better opportunity if they see fit, without having to sit out a year (1 time transfer).

 

[BamaFan334]

Non Power 5 D'1s, FCS, and D2's. Not a huge deal, but in many circles the Non P5 FBS schools are still competing for quite a few of the same players. And I agree, no system is perfect. The NCAA produces a fantastic product, and has some obvious flaws



I guess we could have differentiated here... Looks like you're fine with a grad transfer. So am I. I just believe other dudes who get beat out like Jalen did, or endure a coaching change, or just want a more likely opportunity to get on the field should get that opportunity once without penalty. I don't look at Taulia any different than Jalen in regard to their intentions... The kid wanted to be at Alabama, represent Alabama, and believed in the system. Jalen had some good fortune of a bad QB crop in front of him, so he stayed & played longer. Taulia had stiffer competition (Like.. Tua ). Which in a way shows he really wanted to be at UA, it just didn't work out.



Team Me should be a huge part of every decision in life, including team sports. Yes that's inconvenient to hear and may tug at the fabric of a program that is near and dear, but it's no different than the decisions you make every day for the benefit of yourself and your family. While it's not true that every college athlete has the legitimate ability to make $$ post college, you would have to be a fool to believe that the student-athletes in the Alabama football program aren't at least in that ball park, and aren't directly tied to their on field production/playing time/relationship with the coaching staff. For some of these dudes, this is absolutely molding what will be their highest potential earning years of their lives. So to not consider what's best for yourself and your future would be short sighted. (I'd like to add that's what makes Saban so special... Is to find the most talented dudes who can be very unselfish and team oriented... It's truly special). As far as my posts, I feel like pointing that out to you is like saying the sky is blue. You know it, but maybe you've got your head in the sand? And pull it out hoping it's still 1997 when players stayed 4 years, contracts were honored, and QB's didn't have 9 figure careers.



What is ruined though? Yes times have changed and things are different, but ruined seems strong. I'm assuming you enjoyed this year! In regards to Waddle, you're absolutely correct. He is a shining example of a dude who waited it out, played through injury, and put the team first. He is truly what "it's all about". At the same time, I think where we disagree, is that I wouldn't have looked down on him (or wanted him to be punished) if he wanted to leave. I believe he should have had the option to go somewhere else if he preferred it, without punishment... Instead of blocking that option.



Again, I'm surprised that you don't want to acknowledge how important the "amateur years" are to their professional careers. When you say "a bad business decision can only be made when it's business", you're basically saying choosing Texas over Alabama has no potential impact on your NFL value. I'm kind of befuddled by this. But anyhow, I'm not for limiting coaches ability to come & go as they please with whatever buyouts or clauses that get addressed in their contracts, or not look for better opportunities, or get fired for bad production. I just think the players should be afforded a one time transfer if they believe they can maximize their own potential as well... Mostly due to how quickly schools turn over staffs and the reality of what the "professionals" have molded college football into... Which is a business first mentality.

I consider these players like a green employee with no professional experience and college football as their opportunity to learn and get better. We all know there is a 0.0000001% of players that could go straight to the NFL out of high school. Universities pay coaches to come in and give these players the tools to gain that experience, grow, and then get promoted to a higher paid position. "I want it now" is another major fault of this immature society that isn't wanting to earn it, they want it all now. Schools invest in players. Without those apparel and tv contracts, there wouldn't be the money to provide these guys with coaches, medical, educational, and other living expenses that make their lives much easier. I mean, zero concerns financially, roof over your head, clothes on your back, and every amenity one could want at 18 years old. I say all of this just to make a point they are already compensated while being inexperienced football players.

I understand what you're saying about a business decision, but where was that mentality when you chose your school, while you were training and practicing, and in class? Taulia is very different than Jalen. He wanted to play and just wasn't tough enough to go after Mac and Bryce. My point is, will he really be an NFL prospect even with three years at Maryland? So what kind of business decision was made? If you want to transfer, pay the price for that business decision. You're an amateur player, your coach is a professional and on a contract. If players want to open up that floodgate of being paid with the option of being cut, that won't end well for 90% of those blue chippers.

Waddle's decision to play was just awesome and he'll forever be remembered and appreciated by Alabama fans. I don't think anyone says a word to him negatively if he sits out due to his injury. Players like Arik Gilbert opting out in the middle of the year??? That's a quitter and he should pay the price for that in sitting out a year as well as being looked at in a bad light by LSU fans. How much did they invest in his recruitment, and his classes, room, and all of those other perka onky for him to up and leave receiving zero credits, not even earning any money for his on the field product, and everything else they gave his a lot in the recruiting class. The school invested and basically got zero in return. Once again, how could he have bought in to LSU and loved what LSU was about and those bonds you spoke of and just leave like that? Must not have been much of a bond. The NFL allows a lot of this by conrinuing to allow bad behaviors and looking over character iasues to where these guys can quit and act like idiots without any professional reprocussions.