| NEWS Finebaum caller: Bryce Young 'way better' than Tua Tagovailoa- 247Sports

[TerryP]

people thinking a freshman that hasn’t played one down of college football is better than the best QB Bama has ever had.....people are idiots

Yet, we had people say the same about Tua when he arrived. Not so idiotic there, right?

I've yet to hear of a staff member say "he's better than the best Bama QB." They have said they see the potential because he has all the attributes Tua brought but with a strong, bigger, more athletic frame (which is something they building now with BY having gained 15 lbs since his signing.)

Five years ago if you told me Saban would consider starting a true freshman I'd have doubted the thought (with extreme prejudice.) We learned that lesson with Jalen.

That said, I don't believe Young supplants Mac as QB1. As I maintained through last season I believe Mac isn't given the credit or acknowledgment he deserves. I also believe it's a safe statement to say "he changed the mind of some of his doubters."

I agree with you, wholeheartedly, that's it's premature in that Young hasn't played a down of collegiate ball. Recently I had someone point out to me that "playing in high school isn't the same as college." No shit, right?

However, playing in Hawaii at the level Tua did isn't comparable with playing in Cali at the level Bryce has in his high school career. And yet, we're looking at practically identical measurements with TD's, INT's, accuracy, and the like.

That's a hell of a load of expectation to drop on a player coming out of high school. There is reason though.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Fundamentally wrong due to one specific thing in this thread/conversation.

No matter what era a player is in there are a few certain truths: turnovers are as bad today as they were back in Frank Howards day. It's one thing that will cause a team to lose. It's definitive. No matter the era turnovers haven't changed.

The point you're refusing to consider these few things mentioned as ample reason to say "there were a handful of quarterbacks better at Alabama" than those mentioned in this thread isn't taking an objective view of what JD said in this thread.

Scoff at the idea McCarron was better at Bama than Namath (as one example?)

In his career AJ had 15 interceptions.
In his career Joe had 20 interceptions at Bama. (For every six TD's passed he threw five INT's. It's about a 5:1 ratio with AJ.)
The math. It's indisputable.

Just as important, perhaps even more so, AJ had three times as many touchdowns.
AJ's QB rating was over 35 points better than Joe's.
His completion rate in his worst season (62.5%) came as a freshman. Joe's best rate was his senior year at 64%.
Career wise? 66.9% vs 54.3%.

Everything about AJ vs Joe in their time at Bama places AJ on a different level than Joe. The only reason people put Joe so high in their "Alabama's QB list" is due to what he did in the NFL and Hollywood. It has nothing to do with their time at Bama.

The attempt to dismiss things like decision making, which leads to INT's, is a hill I wouldn't die on if I were you. It's akin to looking at a running back who fumbled 20 times in his career and then comparing him to a guy who never lost a fumble at Bama and saying, "different era's, you can't compare them." Yet, it's still a matter of taking care of the football.

You still just dont get it....
Done I could do....moving on

 

[mando]

You still just dont get it....
Done I could do....moving on

@TerryP for me a lot of this is the nostalgia associated with our younger days. To this day Johnny Musso is my favorite bama running back. That will always make me feel like he was one of the best. My first bama hero from my early memories of bama football.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

@TerryP for me a lot of this is the nostalgia associated with our younger days. To this day Johnny Musso is my favorite bama running back. That will always make me feel like he was one of the best. My first bama hero from my early memories of bama football.

Again...can compare stats.....( even though I know someone who will start) but he was ahoss...also one of mine.....especially when BEAR changed to wishbone...carried a big load..

 

[TerryP]

You still just dont get it....

Oh, I do get it and pointed to where this is coming from in this very thread.

Mando nails it here ...

@TerryP for me a lot of this is the nostalgia associated with our younger days.

That's exactly right. No doubt. It's about Joe and the Jets, Joe as the Super Bowl winning QB from Alabama, Joe and his notoriety of the time which is still celebrated today. It is not, however, about the job he did as QB while at Bama compared to other QB's we have seen come through the program in our lifetime.

Done I could do....moving on

This is what you've presented in this thread.

Again he was in Bears system....run...play field position...play D..

I'm well aware he was in a more conservative system under Coach Bryant and still had more interceptions in the spread offense fielded by Saban.

A QB can easily, and accurately, be judged by looking at the number of times he turned the ball over. He can be judged by team wins, accuracy, and other measures as well. In every one of these cases you don't find Joe higher than AJ. Much less Tua.

This is NOT a knock on Joe or what he represents. He simply wasn't as good at the position as others have been at Alabama even with all the accolades that have been heaped upon him.

Hell, even Coach Bryant didn't call Namath the best QB he coached; he pointed to Trammell. Who, coincidently, held a 4:1 ratio.

 

[XXL TideFan]

When I was a kid there were fights who got to be Musso at times. Best running back ever at Bama? Not even close, same with Namath and Stabler. Players are viewed through the hero lens of our youths. All of the would've, could've, and should'ves aside and it is a damn good thing to have a tradition to be afforded the opportunity to debate it in a vacuum. What would have Derrick Henry been on Coach Bryant's teams? Would Musso have had a roll with DH there?

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Oh, I do get it and pointed to where this is coming from in this very thread.

Mando nails it here ...

That's exactly right. No doubt. It's about Joe and the Jets, Joe as the Super Bowl winning QB from Alabama, Joe and his notoriety of the time which is still celebrated today. It is not, however, about the job he did as QB while at Bama compared to other QB's we have seen come through the program in our lifetime.


This is what you've presented in this thread.



I'm well aware he was in a more conservative system under Coach Bryant and still had more interceptions in the spread offense fielded by Saban.

A QB can easily, and accurately, be judged by looking at the number of times he turned the ball over. He can be judged by team wins, accuracy, and other measures as well. In every one of these cases you don't find Joe higher than AJ. Much less Tua.

This is NOT a knock on Joe or what he represents. He simply wasn't as good at the position as others have been at Alabama even with all the accolades that have been heaped upon him.

Hell, even Coach Bryant didn't call Namath the best QB he coached; he pointed to Trammell. Who, coincidently, held a 4:1 ratio.

O gosh....i realy just need to ignore....
you dont get it...you are comparing different eras...different systems....different skills
And justify with stats.... and trying to say one better than other...maybe so...maybe not....
Leaving out unquantifiable data...ie quality of receivers, type passing game, etc
And i plan on leaving this here....
Tua brought back that excitement to BD..with slants to great set of receivers....that Joe brought to Denny... the level joe brought fromTrammels/Bears option game...to down field passing...with steady solid set of receivers...
Who was better? Cant compare....
As for Trammel...was one of BEARs favorite players..steady,firey leader, didnt make mistakes.... ( and mine...saw him play in HS) ....hope Tua can move on and have a great career at the next klevel...will always go down as one of my favorites..along with aforementioned QBs..and have greatest play in bama history...
50-60 years later.....there is still talk about Namath at both levels....

 

[TerryP]

you dont get it...you are comparing different eras...different systems....different skills

Is an interception in this era different from an interception 50 years ago? It's still a bad decision, a bad pass.
Is accuracy in this era different than accuracy 50 years ago? It's still completing a pass.

The differences in our opinions here are found in this area: subjective vs objective looks at what they did at Alabama. I get it when fans look from an emotional, nostalgic, point of view. In some cases looking at players from your school from an objective standpoint is more than understandable.

However, no matter the era we're talking about all QB's are judged, and will continue to be judged, on empirical data.

One thing I'd be willing to bet any amount on and that's this.

"We have to limit the turnovers." It was a statement made 50 years ago and it's a statement made today. The impact of mistakes made by the QB has never changed.

 

[pop2]

Players at ALL positions are better than those of yesteryear. Bigger, stronger, faster, better technique, better trained, etc. Very few would make the team now days.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Players at ALL positions are better than those of yesteryear. Bigger, stronger, faster, better technique, better trained, etc. Very few would make the team now days.

Until they had the training....diets......etc
An athlete is an athlete l..

 

[ElephantStomp]

Until they had the training....diets......etc
An athlete is an athlete l..

Athletes today are much better than athletes from any other era, bigger, stronger, faster.

I’m as big of a Snake and Namath fan as there is (nostalgia, my Dad was a HUGE Namath fan), but neither of them using any info, stats, etc are better than Tua.

 

[mando]

Lets just celebrate that Tua, Joe, Snake, Henry, Musso etc.... all played at bama. No idea how other fan bases do it. What do they truly have to celebrate relative to the bama history? Some do have some history but none are better.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Athletes today are much better than athletes from any other era, bigger, stronger, faster.

I’m as big of a Snake and Namath fan as there is (nostalgia, my Dad was a HUGE Namath fan), but neither of them using any info, stats, etc are better than Tua.

Right....but an athlete is an athlete....
Given the training...diet...medical....
Those athletes...would be on par....
Ali....Mantle.....Owens..... Ruth...Aaron...
and onlyone was saying one is better than the other...
I was only saying.... i have witnessed first hand...the excitement that others have brought.....that Tua did...
No way to compare atheles from one era to another..

 

[PurlJam]

Bryce has extraterrestrial abilities.

 

[TerryP]

No way to compare atheles from one era to another..

Van Tiffin to Bulovas? Leigh to his dad?

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Van Tiffin to Bulovas? Leigh to his dad?

Might get away with those

 

[TerryP]

@50+yeartidefan, then possibly you're beginning to see my points with the few QB's.

Who had the better game?

 

[50+yeartidefan]

@50+yeartidefan, then possibly you're beginning to see my points with the few QB's.

Who had the better game?
View attachment 13526

No point. Sorry
Those r kickers.
Lot different then QBs

 

[BamaFan334]

Is an interception in this era different from an interception 50 years ago? It's still a bad decision, a bad pass.
Is accuracy in this era different than accuracy 50 years ago? It's still completing a pass.

The differences in our opinions here are found in this area: subjective vs objective looks at what they did at Alabama. I get it when fans look from an emotional, nostalgic, point of view. In some cases looking at players from your school from an objective standpoint is more than understandable.

However, no matter the era we're talking about all QB's are judged, and will continue to be judged, on empirical data.

One thing I'd be willing to bet any amount on and that's this.

"We have to limit the turnovers." It was a statement made 50 years ago and it's a statement made today. The impact of mistakes made by the QB has never changed.

I don't agree with you here. Football is so much more organized today than 50 years ago. Players are prepped at such a higher level that you can't even begin to compare. Was film readily available and dissected back then like it is now? I understand your formation of the arguement, but there are just too many different factors that go into this arguement that different eras is the best arguement. Stats do tell alot of a story, but comparing stats from different eras isn't always comparable. How many people have passed Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, or Mickey Mantle? Does that lessen their value, heck no, and they are still considered Top 5 players even though record wise they may not be in the Top 5 or 10.

Sure, there may have better statistical quarterbacks, but how many Texas Tech or Washington State quarterbacks have won the Heisman or a Natty? How many Nattys has Georgia Tech or Army won lately with their top rushing attacks? Look at Johnny Manziel and what he did at A&M. He's sitting around a 3:1 ratio and the guy was unstoppable. He wasn't statistically better than AJ or even as polished, but he was more exciting and holds a place in A&M history.

I am waaaaay to young to have seen most of these guys, but I do know a lot of Alabama fans who hate the Jets and NFL, but still talk about Namath. Multi-generational Alabama graduates and boosters that hate pro football, but still say these guys are the best. All I am saying is that stats are difficult to use in such a long spread time wise, but yes, they are different in my mind. It's not some mystery why records keep getting broken. Not always because a guy was a "generational talent", but because all records are made to be broken and with technology and performance moving the needle, it will keep happening.

 

[rueben]

He could be the next "Tua," he could be the next "Blake Barnett."

5 Star, from Out West.