🏈 announcement SEC/Big12 - shake up in the bowl selection process

[planomateo]

http://twitter.com/#!/MrCFB/status/203497884010811396

Blockbuster announcement coming at noon from SEC concerning post-season agreement with Big 12. Story coming on

 

[TerryP]

Provided the conference champs aren't in the BCSNC, the two will meet in a bowl game. 5 yr agreement starting in 2014.

One of the ESPN guys tweeted a teaser about this yesterday. I can't recall who it was though.

 

[TerryP]

Tony Barnhart:

The SEC will announce at noon ET an agreement with the Big 12 for their champions to meet in a to-be-determined bowl game if they are not a part of the anticipated four-team playoff beginning in 2014.
An industry source said the alliance between the two conferences will be similar to that of the Big Ten and Pac-12, whose champions meet annually in the Rose Bowl if they are not a part of the BCS championship game.
"The thinking is, the Big 12 and SEC, we're in the strongest positions right now. Let's create a big-time matchup," a source told CBSSports.com. "I don't know if other leagues will create matchups like this, but this is a way for the two leagues to develop [a partnership]."
It is uncertain what this means for the Fiesta Bowl, which has hosted the Big 12 champion since the BCS began in 1998.
Why do the SEC and Big 12 want to do this? To protect each other and to increase the likelihood of a quality matchup. Under the BCS format, their champions were guaranteed a spot in a big game, but the opponent on the other side was uncertain.
There is currently an SEC/Big 12 matchup in the Cotton Bowl, which gets the No. 2 team from the Big 12 and the No. 4 or No. 5 pick from the SEC.
Which bowl will actually host this SEC/Big 12 matchup will be determined by a bidding process. The Sugar Bowl has hosted the SEC champion since 1976 and would be expected to stay in the No. 1 slot when the conference signs its new bowl contracts, which begin after the 2014 regular season.
"The idea is that it's a consistent location," a source said. "The Sugar Bowl is the No. 1 option. If you look at the power conferences, the Pac-12 and Big Ten are matched up. The rest of the conferences [outside the Rose Bowl] aren't really matched up."
Currently, the Capital One Bowl in Orlando selects after the Sugar Bowl is filled.
It has been clear for some time that the concept of automatic qualifiers for BCS bowls would go away in whatever new postseason format was created by college football commissioners. This SEC/Big 12 arrangement seems to confirm that conferences will strike their own deals with bowls. This matchup was discussed as long ago as two years, in case the Rose Bowl was a roadblock toward some sort of postseason model.
The hope for both sides is that this agreement will work like the Rose in that when the champions are part of the four team playoff, the bowl will be free to take the No. 2 teams from the SEC and Big 12

 

[TerryP]

The splash that Delany and Swofford just heard was the shot across the bow just fired from the Big12 and the SEC offices.

Realize how quickly a bowl partnership can turn into a super conference? Just like that!

I've said all along all those crying for a damn playoff didn't realize what can of worms they were opening. I knew it would shake the essence of college football up to its core. We are so close to the majority wishing for things to be the way they used to be...

 

[Bo]

Personally, I loved the old system. Sure, there was a lot of controversy because there was not a "true" champion, but damn it made bowl season fun when you had several games that actually had meaning and more than one game helped determine who got voted #1.

 

[BAMANEWSBOT]

Mike Slive: SEC/Big 12 bowl could be inside or outside BCS

BIRMINGHAM, Alabama -- A new Jan. 1 bowl between the SEC and Big 12 could be inside or outside a four-team playoff that's hopefully coming to college football, SEC Commissioner Mike Slive said today.
The leagues announced a five-year agreement starting in 2014 pairing conference champions from the SEC and Big 12. If one or more champions is in the playoffs, then other SEC and Big 12 teams would be selected for the bowl.
It's unclear how the SEC/Big 12 bowl and the Rose Bowl, which is aligned with the Big Ten and Pac-12, may factor into a playoff format.
"I think one of the points to be made here is two conferences are coming together in the best interests of the conferences," Slive said. "We'll decide who our bowl relationships will be and we'll be active in managing wherever the game gets placed."
The SEC-Big 12 bowl could command a stand-alone TV deal, much like the existing arrangement for the Rose Bowl. ABC has a separate agreement with the Rose Bowl outside the BCS worth about $30 million a year.
Asked how much money could be made from a bowl between SEC and Big 12 champions, Slive replied, "We're talking about two of the most successful conferences in the BCS era. We'll see."
Slive said the SEC and Big 12 are committed to the BCS process and won't begin negotiating with television or any bowls to stage the game until it's clear what the postseason looks like.
"It can be in the BCS or outside the BCS," he said. "Obviously we want to be very much a part of the BCS. It's our goal to enhance the postseason and complement what I hope will be a four-team playoff."
The playoff model will likely include neutral sites for the semifinal and championship game. That raises questions such as whether the new SEC/Big 12 bowl would be part of that format and, if so, whether it could host two bowls in a single year.
"Those are the right questions. There are many of them," Slive said. "At this point what we don't want to do is get out in front of the BCS conversations. We are going to go through that process and then make our decision about our game at that time. Because it could be inside the BCS."
The SEC wants a playoff to include the top four teams. The Big Ten favors a model using conference champions, something the Pac-12 seems inclined to support as well.
Just this week, the ACC switched its preference to the conference-champion model. Two weeks ago, ACC Commissioner John Swofford told CBSSports.com "the credibility of the system is undermined" if the top four teams aren't selected.
The Big 12 hasn't publicly said what model it supports. Asked if this new bowl means the Big 12 supports the SEC's playoff stance, Slive said: "I certainly hope so. My position hasn't changed on that. I think you'd have to ask them. That's not a part of this."
Slive said he and former Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe had on and off conversations for several years about creating this bowl.
"We talked about this way back just in case the BCS didn't continue, but obviously the BCS has continued for several cycles," Slive said. "Now that we're looking at hopefully a different postseason, this was the opportune time to sit down and talk about it again."
Slive said the ideal slot for the SEC/Big 12 bowl is primetime on New Year's Day, but no decision can be made until discussions with television partners.

 

[LBS]

I've said all along all those crying for a damn playoff didn't realize what can of worms they were opening. I knew it would shake the essence of college football up to its core. We are so close to the majority wishing for things to be the way they used to be...

I dont see it as Super Conference Lite, as long as the "...unless one or both of the champions is in the Final Four" stipulation is in play. No one has refered to the Pac12 and the Big10 as a super conference, and that seems to be what is being modeled.

We have had agreements with other conferences to meet in a bowl, even to match a stated x-ranked team. I see this as the re-negotiation of these conference/bowl affiliations, but only on a big scale.

If a regular season between an SEC team and a Big12 team has as much weight in conference rankings as a game between two SEC teams, then the two are acting as a super conference.

 

[TerryP]

I dont see it as Super Conference Lite, as long as the "...unless one or both of the champions is in the Final Four" stipulation is in play. No one has refered to the Pac12 and the Big10 as a super conference, and that seems to be what is being modeled.

We have had agreements with other conferences to meet in a bowl, even to match a stated x-ranked team. I see this as the re-negotiation of these conference/bowl affiliations, but only on a big scale.

If a regular season between an SEC team and a Big12 team has as much weight in conference rankings as a game between two SEC teams, then the two are acting as a super conference.

As I see it, and as a lot I've spoken with on this subject see it, this is the beginning of the end. While Super Conference might not be the accurate description, this very well may be the beginning of a move of some of the power teams to leave the current confines of the NCAA.

There is no way to say this other than "the ACC and the Big East have just been made irrelevant" in the total picture. The BCS automatic bids are pretty well done.

What are the odds of say the ACC champion facing any team from the "Big 4" in postseason play without making the playoff? It's all but eliminated except for some minor bowl game where both teams barely break even, if not lose money? Any hope the BE or the ACC playing the #2 team in the post season? Virtually impossible.

With this agreement, do you see what we're left with? Four conferences with major deals, and the ACC and the Big East looking from the outside, in.

FWIW, those bowl agreements undoubtedly have "look-ins" just like our TV deal has. I know the Gator Bowl had one. We saw that change in the last five years.

Our (as in both conferences) best teams are playing in the playoff or in a bowl game of our own. When you're the runner up in the conference champ in the Big East, but outside of the top four, where are you playing? And, against whom?

---

Let's not forget one MAJOR point here. The agreement between the SEC and the Big12 is outside of the BCS. In other words, they have no part of it when it comes to the monetary negotiations. I've seen, and heard, more than a dozen figure heads outside of these conferences comment on the game and say the payouts are "unthinkable."

What's interesting to me is the Big East screwed themselves years ago trying to become a basketball conference in hopes they'd set themselves apart from conferences built on football. Swofford followed their example with his move to add Pitt and 'Cuse. Now, the ACC is a basketball conference as well. (Consider the ramifications if FSU and Clemson leave!)

 

[LBS]

As I see it, and as a lot I've spoken with on this subject see it, this is the beginning of the end. While Super Conference might not be the accurate description, this very well may be the beginning of a move of some of the power teams to leave the current confines of the NCAA.

There is no way to say this other than "the ACC and the Big East have just been made irrelevant" in the total picture. The BCS automatic bids are pretty well done.

What are the odds of say the ACC champion facing any team from the "Big 4" in postseason play without making the playoff? It's all but eliminated except for some minor bowl game where both teams barely break even, if not lose money? Any hope the BE or the ACC playing the #2 team in the post season? Virtually impossible.

With this agreement, do you see what we're left with? Four conferences with major deals, and the ACC and the Big East looking from the outside, in.

FWIW, those bowl agreements undoubtedly have "look-ins" just like our TV deal has. I know the Gator Bowl had one. We saw that change in the last five years.

Our (as in both conferences) best teams are playing in the playoff or in a bowl game of our own. When you're the runner up in the conference champ in the Big East, but outside of the top four, where are you playing? And, against whom?

---

Let's not forget one MAJOR point here. The agreement between the SEC and the Big12 is outside of the BCS. In other words, they have no part of it when it comes to the monetary negotiations. I've seen, and heard, more than a dozen figure heads outside of these conferences comment on the game and say the payouts are "unthinkable."

What's interesting to me is the Big East screwed themselves years ago trying to become a basketball conference in hopes they'd set themselves apart from conferences built on football. Swofford followed their example with his move to add Pitt and 'Cuse. Now, the ACC is a basketball conference as well. (Consider the ramifications if FSU and Clemson leave!)

Some good points packaged there Terry, but beyond having a non Final Four shot at the SEC #1 or Big12 #1, no doors have been closed to the ACC and Big East. Each still can get to the Final Four and win the BCS title. Each can still end up playing SEC and Big12 team (except for #1s) in all the same bowl games. Although very much less sexy, the ACC and Big East could even hold their own "Rose Bowl". (NY and some Steinbrenner money could produce a handsome payday). I see their loss as being financial, but is it crushing?

What I am eager to see is what the ACC and the BigEast do now. Being Basketball conferences, they are very familiar with the Conference vs Conference challenges - the purposeful arrangement of numerous games between two conferences during a small window of time. I would not be surprised to see the ACC approach the SEC and ask to set up 4-6 week one games at neurtal site locations (big paydays), much like the Chick-fil-a Kickoff Classic. In this manner the ACC gets that apples-to-apples comparison with the SEC.
AND, its outside the BCS construct.

 

[TerryP]

Some good points packaged there Terry, but beyond having a non Final Four shot at the SEC #1 or Big12 #1, no doors have been closed to the ACC and Big East. Each still can get to the Final Four and win the BCS title. Each can still end up playing SEC and Big12 team (except for #1s) in all the same bowl games.

So far, the Big East and ACC have barely stepped foot on the property much less have a door shut on them. I do see, and agree, with your premise though.

I'll toss this one back to you. Who do you see from either conference making it to that final four?

The more we hear and see about all of this the more I believe it's a wise move for FSU and Clemson to abandon ship. Consider this for a second...and we'll use FSU as an example.

With the new media contract the ACC just signed it's going to put around 2MM more in the coffers for the ACC schools. That sounds great for the Seminole program until you look and see they were 8.5MM in the red last year. FLORIDA STATE! (FWIW, Clemson was around 2.5MM in the black)

If those two schools do move you can take the football programs of that conference and place them right beside Steinbrenner.

Now, with that segway... anic:

Although very much less sexy, the ACC and Big East could even hold their own "Rose Bowl". (NY and some Steinbrenner money could produce a handsome payday). I see their loss as being financial, but is it crushing?

This will not happen. If it did, it would be one of the worst financial decision made by anyone sponsoring the game. Why? Look no further than the success of the Orange Bowl when the Big East and the ACC have met. Hell, we probably have as many people in and around the Quad playing Georgia Southern as those games have had in the stands.

Seriously. Think about how well that's worked out for them the last few years.

What I am eager to see is what the ACC and the BigEast do now. Being Basketball conferences, they are very familiar with the Conference vs Conference challenges - the purposeful arrangement of numerous games between two conferences during a small window of time. I would not be surprised to see the ACC approach the SEC and ask to set up 4-6 week one games at neurtal site locations (big paydays), much like the Chick-fil-a Kickoff Classic. In this manner the ACC gets that apples-to-apples comparison with the SEC.
AND, its outside the BCS construct.

As to your idea of having a 4-6 week stretch of ACC vs SEC teams? It not feasible with conference play from either league. It's one thing to have a game at a neutral location to start the season. It wouldn't do any SEC a bit of good to play one of the ACC teams in the middle of their SEC schedule. If we jump back a few years we see Arkansas playing A&M in Dallas and then dropping two of their next three SEC games.

---

As I said earlier, I firmly believe this was a shot across the bow of a few conference commissioners. If I can see, and we can find a lot of pundits around the nation seeing the same, this as a precursor to some major alliances...those commissioners can as well.

You know what's interesting here LBS? All the talk about conferences have pretty well been centered on what happens to the ACC. We aren't seeing a lot of discussion about the Big East. Are they already irrelevant?

 

[planomateo]

honestly, I haven't wrapped my head around this one yet. I mentioned that to my longhorn buddy that I was kinda mixed on this deal (same guy that went to the Rosebowl w/ me). His response, you scared?

Alot of posturing going on right now - Terry you think that was a 16" shell or just a 5" shell "shot across the bow"?

I'm curious to see what kinda payout this means (Rosebowl is what, $30m?) - also curious to see if this gets lumped into the new SEC tv deal or just a side deal.

 

[TerryP]

honestly, I haven't wrapped my head around this one yet. I mentioned that to my longhorn buddy that I was kinda mixed on this deal (same guy that went to the Rosebowl w/ me). His response, you scared?

Alot of posturing going on right now - Terry you think that was a 16" shell or just a 5" shell "shot across the bow"?

I'm curious to see what kinda payout this means (Rosebowl is what, $30m?) - also curious to see if this gets lumped into the new SEC tv deal or just a side deal.

Slive ordered a 6" shell for symbolism. It was made from Waterford Crystal.

You can't take what the Rose Bowl is doing and use that as an indicator on the payout. For one, the Rose has to give part of that money to the BCS. It was part of their agreement to maintain the B1G vs Pac12 arrangement.

Slive has already said this new game is outside of the BCS. So, all monies will remain within the two conferences. In other words, the BCS doesn't get jack. It's not part of the new media contracts either. It's basically a game in and of itself.

I'm guessing, but feel pretty comfortable with the guess, that it will equal, if not exceed, the payout for the BCSNC. How could it not? Prime time, New Years Day, Big12 vs SEC? It'll be a ratings bonanza!

My guess? At the least, in the area of a 40MM dollar deal.

 

[TerryP]

[h=1]Agreement In Principle for Clemson To Join Big 12; Florida State To Follow[/h]

The news surrounding Big 12 expansion is moving much more quickly after word of the Big 12/SEC bowl alliance came out late this past week. The latest news I can report is that Clemson has agreed in principle to leave the ACC for the Big 12.


While no similar agreement is in place with FSU, word is that the administration has “come around” on the issue, and they will follow Clemson’s lead in short order. From the moment it became clear that FSU’s Board of Trustees wanted to make the move, it has been basically a fait accompli.


It is happening, and quickly.


This news dovetails with what I’ve been reporting. In the initial article, from two weeks ago, I outlined what I knew regarding the Big 12′s plans to be back to 12 by summer’s end. And then, in the story posted yesterday, I examined how the new Big 12/SEC bowl alliance made Big 12 expansion an absolute certainty.


The next step in the process–once Clemson and FSU make their decisions public and official–is for Bowlsby and the league presidents to make two basic decisions. First, is expansion back to 12 teams enough for now? And, second, if not, how do we land Notre Dame?

Nearly every 14-team Big 12 scenario I’m hearing about involves the Fighting Irish. I don’t have enough confidence one way or the other regarding Notre Dame to report anything definitively, but I would not be shocked to see a 14-team Big 12, including Notre Dame, by summer’s end.

 

[planomateo]

landing Notre Dame can't be good for Delaney or B1G, its right in their backyard.

edit to add this > wondering where Baylor stands in this (thinking of the TAMU/Baylor issues)

https://twitter.com/#!/DaveSittler/status/204252144201777152

Sources: Big 12 expansion breakdown: 4 schools OK with it, 4 on fence, 1 pushing hard to make it happen, 1 pushing hard to prevent it.

 

[TerryP]

"...1 pushing hard to prevent it."

Wonder who?

I don't know, but it sort of sounds like something a Kansas school would do.

 

[planomateo]

so it seems the writing is on the wall...

SEC/Big XII, PAC-12/B1G - ACC is the 5th wheel ( insert those ship jumpers - FSU / Clemson), Big East was never relevant.

Notre Dame's hand is forced, they have to join something - and the potential suitors will promise/give up anything to have Notre Dame is my guess - they are a very big get - they can't play as a 5th wheel.

 

[TerryP]

If it were possible to get into Slive's head I'd imagine his fear is seeing the Domers end up in the ACC.

 

[LBS]

Should FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big12, and should the BCS automatic qualifications be done away with, indeed there would not be enough of a conference schedule to best the hot teams from the SEC, Big12, PAC12, and the Big10. In this case, the only traditional Football programs of note in the east would be Virginia Tech, Miami, and Notre Dame.

So what happens to the Hokies, the Canes, and the Irish? Do they get picked up by the Big10 and the Big 12, in an effort to reach 14 teams? I don't know that 14 equals the fabled "super confernece", but it would indeed effectively shut out the ACC and BigEast from a shot at the title. They would become essentially the Mountain West and C-USA, but with really good basketball.

 

[TerryP]

Should FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big12, and should the BCS automatic qualifications be done away with, indeed there would not be enough of a conference schedule to best the hot teams from the SEC, Big12, PAC12, and the Big10. In this case, the only traditional Football programs of note in the east would be Virginia Tech, Miami, and Notre Dame.

So what happens to the Hokies, the Canes, and the Irish? Do they get picked up by the Big10 and the Big 12, in an effort to reach 14 teams? I don't know that 14 equals the fabled "super confernece", but it would indeed effectively shut out the ACC and BigEast from a shot at the title. They would become essentially the Mountain West and C-USA, but with really good basketball.

I was on the range the other day trying to do that math in my head and pick which teams are in and which ones would be out.

Here's what I was working with...

I firmly believe the mark will be 16 teams like we've seen mentioned so many times. Part of that assuredness comes from a comment Slive made a few weeks ago when asked about the SEC and how long it would take to get to 16. "We could be at 16 in 15 minutes" was his response. Considering Slive's background professionally, I don't see those words coming out of his mouth unless it's something he's considered and spoken with some people about.

Now, back to the math point.

IF we take the SEC it would take two teams to reach 16. If we take the four conferences we are discussion now, there are currently 16 slots open to make all four, 16 team conferences.

Someone will be left out. Who do you put in those 16 slots? The three schools you mentioned would certainly take up three slots as well as a school like FSU taking up another. Now, we are down to 12.

This probably deserves a thread of its own, but...

Arbitrarily:

1. Domers
2. Va Tech
3. Miami
4. FSU
5. Georgia Tech
6. Clemson
7. UNC
8. NC St.
9. Maryland
10. BC
11. Virginia
12. Louisville
13. Pitt
14. 'Cuse
15. Boise State
16. SMU
17. -----
18. -----
19. -----
20. -----

You have four more teams that deserve consideration? Five, six?

That's just off the top of my head...

 

[It Takes Eleven]

I love Boise running off east to join a conference that's no longer relevant...

Terry, I would add BYU to that list, and I'd put Air Force above SMU as well. The timing of this landslide of activity is unfortunate for some teams who have sniffed success but have no established track record. South Florida comes to mind. I'm also curious what Georgia State or South Alabama would look like in another three to five years, or if Troy will ever get their second wind and move forward. Southern Miss could be a better long term football bet (fielding a competitive team) than a Louisville or Syracuse, although TV draws would stink.

RTR,

Tim