🏈 A bit OT: Shula, Malzahn, and Cam. What are we learning here?

[TerryP]

To be clear, I don't care for Cam's persona. I do revere his athleticism and talents on the football field.

This morning I'm left wondering a bit about Shula and Malzahn. There are stories circulating right now about the possibility of Mike Shula getting another head coaching gig. These stories center around the success that the Panthers have had on offense. The bottom line, this offense of Carolina's has painted Shula in a different light; some equating Cam making Shula look like an offensive whiz.

Which all leads me to think ... if Cam is making Shula look like a genius, what does that say about what Cam did for Malzahn's perception as an offensive wunderkind?

We all know what Shula brings to the table. We are told what Gus brings to the same table in college ball. Is it just a coincidence that both coaches are, seemingly, making their reputations based on one athlete, not their coaching acumen?

 

[mhardiman]

What we know about Shula with his stand off approach with the players and little to no discipline; if he were to get another shot as a head coach he'd be better off staying in the pro's than to come back in the college ranks. He better learn how to let asst. coaches go when there not getting the job done, and let his OC do his job and call plays.
Is Cam making the two look better than they were; yes, but in Malzahn's defense he didn't look bad when he had a DB playing QB too. I think Shula would be better off remaining a bridges maid rather than a bridge, but you never no. He may have learned a few things since then.

 

[planomateo]

Gus Malzahn got paid just like Kliff Kingsbury & Kevin Sumlin did. Gus getting caught up in the Springdale HS drama during his brief tenure at Arkansas spoke volumes about him.

With regards to Cam's persona, he sure has the fans/kids bought in...something every owner wants. He's way more engaged with the fans than most other NFLers.

 

[UAgrad93]

I actually believe Shula has sort of harnessed Cam and cut done a lot of his improvising. Shula has grown as a play caller as well and is now using all of the weapons at his disposal instead of beating one to death like a rented mule ( Ken Darby ). I don't see Shula ever being worthy of a HC gig though. He is in his element as a position coach/ OC.
As for Gus, he rode Cam like a rented mule and would probably have gotten him killed if Cam stayed another year.

 

[BigCrimson]

Great players can make average to bad coaches look very good. I think this is the case with Newton and Shula. His athletic talent is so great it's hard not to have success with his type talent. I think to grade Shula you need to throw Cam out of the situation and see what he's done with QB's not as talented as Cam to get a real assessment.

 

[rick4bama]

Well the two nut head(Joe and Troy) said about the same thing about Shula. How he has grow as a OC with Cam.

What we know about Shula with his stand off approach with the players and little to no discipline; if he were to get another shot as a head coach he'd be better off staying in the pro's than to come back in the college ranks.

He couldn't handle the kids in college, how does he handle man in the pro?

 

[Rolltide24]

Gus put up big numbers on us with Marshall as well as Cam. More with Marshall, actually. A lot more... I think Cam beat us in 2010, well, and we beat ourselves. But he got out there and made the plays. It wasn't play calling as much as when Marshall played QB for him.

I'm mixed on Cam. He's out amoung the public here every day. Does tons of stuff with fans, sick folks, hungry folks, etc... He's been a real asset to the team off the field. He and Olsen are considered saints around here, for the most part. He's done nothing outside the lines here, save the baby from the questionable gal in Atlanta, but that's another story. He's a beast on the field, and done very many things off the field.

Go back and look at Shula's offenses before this year. This was definitely a break out year. He's complimented Cam, and Cam has definitely made Shula look good. Go back and check out our offense Shula's last 2 years at the capstone. In 2005, once Prothro went down, we struggled to score 10 points. Had a vicious D, but we couldn't score. And 2006 we were far from jugarnauts. I'm not sold that he's the next head coach somewhere important. He's been on the hot seat here for couple of years before this year. Fans have been on his tail since he got.the job. If Cam wasn't the QB, Shula would be job hunting.

 

[riz]

All I know is I hope he never comes back to Tampa Bay as OC. Brutal, brutal, brutal.

 

[mhardiman]

Well the two nut head(Joe and Troy) said about the same thing about Shula. How he has grow as a OC with Cam.


He couldn't handle the kids in college, how does he handle man in the pro?

Could be wrong, but I don't think a pro coach is asked to. In my opinion Shula while at Alabama displayed he had more pro coaching experience than college coaching due to this. Also not all, but most pro players are a little more mature than college kids. Player in the pro's not working out or in team meetings will show on gameday; that gets you cut from the team, and when you get cut from the team no more paychecks.

 

[rick4bama]

Could be wrong, but I don't think a pro coach is asked to. In my opinion Shula while at Alabama displayed he had more pro coaching experience than college coaching due to this. Also not all, but most pro players are a little more mature than college kids. Player in the pro's not working out or in team meetings will show on gameday; that gets you cut from the team, and when you get cut from the team no more paychecks.

So Shula is more of a pro coach that a college coach. We don't see many that can do both like Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer.

 

[JoshB]

As much as I cant stand Cam, it is all Cam. Their offense sucked the last cpl years until they started implementing some of the Auburn offense into the playbook to use his running ability.

 

[mhardiman]

Could be wrong, but I don't think a pro coach is asked to. In my opinion Shula while at Alabama displayed he had more pro coaching experience than college coaching due to this. Also not all, but most pro players are a little more mature than college kids. Player in the pro's not working out or in team meetings will show on gameday; that gets you cut from the team, and when you get cut from the team no more paychecks.

So Shula is more of a pro coach that a college coach. We don't see many that can do both like Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer.

I would argue Switzer being a good pro coach.

 

[rick4bama]

I would argue Switzer being a good pro coach.

I would argue about him being a good college coach! Yes, he had some good team and Heisman winner, but just look how he did it.

 

[mhardiman]

Honestly I'm too young to remember Switzer's Oklahoma days; I couldn't tell you if he went straight from Oklahoma to Dallas or if there was a couple years between. I do remember Oklahoma had dropped off the map at the time he went to Dallas I think from probation that he got them under. I definitely remember him looking like a deer in the headlights on the Dallas sideline, and that he didn't seem to know what to do with all that talent he had around him. He may have a Super Bowl ring, but what Dallas had in those days he should have three or four rings.

 

[BamaFan334]

Newton'S persona is great when he'S winning, but when he'S losing he sucks. I have never/will never like him. That eat shit grin and cockyness will never go over well with me. Anyone ever noticed how his over the top excitement goes to down in the dumps my dog just died look when they bring up money and Auburn and Alabama? Everyone is happy when things are going well.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

To be clear, I don't care for Cam's persona. I do revere his athleticism and talents on the football field.

This morning I'm left wondering a bit about Shula and Malzahn. There are stories circulating right now about the possibility of Mike Shula getting another head coaching gig. These stories center around the success that the Panthers have had on offense. The bottom line, this offense of Carolina's has painted Shula in a different light; some equating Cam making Shula look like an offensive whiz.

Which all leads me to think ... if Cam is making Shula look like a genius, what does that say about what Cam did for Malzahn's perception as an offensive wunderkind?

We all know what Shula brings to the table. We are told what Gus brings to the same table in college ball. Is it just a coincidence that both coaches are, seemingly, making their reputations based on one athlete, not their coaching acumen?

I see the potential for a special player like Cam to make everyone around him better, or make them look better, along with the coaches. You may be on to something, but the value of time isn't fully considered in your assessment.

Are we to assume that, from the age of 41 to 50, Mike Shula hasn't learned more about the game?

I'd hate to think that I hadn't developed in my profession, both from technical and leadership perspectives, over the last nine years. Having worked with many, many people over the last 29 years who are scattered throughout my organization, I have to guard against assuming others are only as competent as they were when I last worked closely with them - five, ten, twenty and, in some cases, twenty-five years ago.

It may well be that it's all Cam. However, we know what Shula brought to the table as a 38 y/o head coach. We have less perspective on Shula the 50 y/o NFL OC.

RTR,

Tim

 

[JoshB]

I would argue Switzer being a good pro coach.

Very good at winning in college... and getting his teams in trouble... and very good at winning a championship in the pros... with a team that Jimmy Johnson put together and when all the all stars from that team left the team sucked... and very good at getting himself in trouble too lol

 

[JoshB]

Honestly I'm too young to remember Switzer's Oklahoma days; I couldn't tell you if he went straight from Oklahoma to Dallas or if there was a couple years between. I do remember Oklahoma had dropped off the map at the time he went to Dallas I think from probation that he got them under. I definitely remember him looking like a deer in the headlights on the Dallas sideline, and that he didn't seem to know what to do with all that talent he had around him. He may have a Super Bowl ring, but what Dallas had in those days he should have three or four rings.

He left in 88 or 89 and left coaching all together after all the scandals OU faced his last cpl years, returned in 95 to coach the Cowboys after Johnson bailed because Jerry Jones is an ass. And OU "dropped off the map" as a direct result of the Switzer regime.

 

[mhardiman]

He left in 88 or 89 and left coaching all together after all the scandals OU faced his last cpl years, returned in 95 to coach the Cowboys after Johnson bailed because Jerry Jones is an ass. And OU "dropped off the map" as a direct result of the Switzer regime.

Thanks; after I posted I was thinking I had it wrong, and Switzer one twice with Dallas. I was thinking Switzer took over in 94; 94 Dallas defeated I think the Packers in the Super Bowl, 95 the 49'ers won it, and 96 Dallas won it all after losing like 5 of there last 6 regular season games. I don't remember what happened after 97, but I think 96 was switzer's only Championship season.

 

[bamafan4ever]

I think it's simply a matter of Cam making Shula and Chizik/Malzahn looking like better coaches than they really are. I am not exactly sure Shula has the capability of reining anyone in. He wants to be everyone's buddy but especially the QB. The shenanigans he let players get away with on the college level was beyond stupid and it took Saban a good 2 years to flush the attitude.

I heard an interesting conversation with McElroy the other day. He said DJ Hall and Keith Brown were the worst team mates that a person could ever wish for. They were a cancer in the locker room. This was all manifested under the leadership of one, Mike Shula.

It's a damn shame too because I loved his guts as a QB.