🌎 USS Liberty Survivors demand investigation

[XXL TideFan]

Truth and sailors were sacrificed to “our greatest ally” in the ME.

USS Liberty Survivors Reunite and Call For a Congressional Investigation into the Deadly Attack on Their Ship - LewRockwell

“If the truth about the attack on the USS Liberty isn’t told to the American public, our Republic will fall. When your own government sets you up to be murdered, this speaks to the influence the Zionist state of Israel has with our politicians. Not one president from LBJ to Biden has lifted a...

www.lewrockwell.com

 

[TerryP]

As soon as I saw the word "Zionist" I didn't click. "Zionist state of Israel" doesn't make any sense, at all.

 

[24and7]

It was merely an accident !!..the pilots of the Israeli Air Force simply forgot their glasses.. they couldn’t tell that they were attacking a clearly identified American ship… Nevermind the frantic radio transmissions to the Israeli military.. could’ve been sunspots back then..

If you believe it was on purpose…well, I guess you must be anti-Semitic or something..

 

[musso]

As soon as I saw the word "Zionist" I didn't click. "Zionist state of Israel" doesn't make any sense, at all.

And why doesn't that make sense to you? You are aware of the history of its founding, are you not? Are you unable to conceive of an Israel that joined the rest of the democratic West who funds it by creating a separation between church and state, and race and state?

 

[TerryP]

And why doesn't that make sense to you? You are aware of the history of its founding, are you not? Are you unable to conceive of an Israel that joined the rest of the democratic West who funds it by creating a separation between church and state, and race and state?

Define Zionist.

 

[TideatMileHigh]

What cognitive dissonance does Lindsey Graham display when this topic comes up?

 

[musso]

Define Zionist.

It’s not up to me to define. It’s been defined by its founders and promoters throughout history. This isn’t a philosophical or metaphysical discussion about what love or truth means.

My point is Israel doesn’t have to be a Zionist ethnostate and theocracy. Get rid of the two-state solution BS which Israel’s extremists have long exploited as a means to gradually expel the native Arabs parcel-by-parcel, conflict-by-conflict. Israel’s Western benefactors could demand a one-state solution, not Zionist but a cosmopolitan Western style democracy welcome to all religions and races. Of course the most influential actors involved would never agree to that because the Jewish Zionist population in Israel-Palestine would be instantly outnumbered by Arabs + anti-Zionist Jews. And Israel would no longer be a “Jewish” state. This is also why Israel avoids defining its borders and remains an occupying power in Gaza and West Bank. It doesn’t want to be confined to borders because its expansionist intentions would be even more obvious and egregious to everyone.

 

[TerryP]

It’s not up to me to define. It’s been defined by its founders and promoters throughout history. This isn’t a philosophical or metaphysical discussion about what love or truth means.

My point is Israel doesn’t have to be a Zionist ethnostate and theocracy. Get rid of the two-state solution BS which Israel’s extremists have long exploited as a means to gradually expel the native Arabs parcel-by-parcel, conflict-by-conflict. Israel’s Western benefactors could demand a one-state solution, not Zionist but a cosmopolitan Western style democracy welcome to all religions and races. Of course the most influential actors involved would never agree to that because the Jewish Zionist population in Israel-Palestine would be instantly outnumbered by Arabs + anti-Zionist Jews. And Israel would no longer be a “Jewish” state. This is also why Israel avoids defining its borders and remains an occupying power in Gaza and West Bank. It doesn’t want to be confined to borders because its expansionist intentions would be even more obvious and egregious to everyone.

 

[TerryP]

Q1: A person who believes in the protection of a Jewish nation. @musso I'm looking...can't find a reason for not supporting people to live.

 

[musso]

In other words, Israel’s expansionists have always perversely relied on conflict and threats (real or fabricated) as a vital lifeline. This is why Bibi has been clamoring for the US to attack everyone in their neighborhood on their behalf for decades now since Likud grabbed a hold of Israeli power, and why he’s tried frightening Americans about Iran’s alleged nuke program which never manifested despite decades of scare tactics. Expansionists always need to hide their schemes behind veils of supposed neighboring threats. Hence they manufacture threats in order to justify their schemes to a public who would have otherwise opposed the policies by themselves.

 

[musso]

Q1: A person who believes in the protection of a Jewish nation. @musso I'm looking...can't find a reason for not supporting people to live.

Groups of people, races, religions, nations, governments, states, organizations, corporations, etc., don’t have inalienable rights to life. Only individuals do. Read your Declaration of Independence to see that states may or may not deserve to exist. The “right” of a Brooklyn Jew to “return” to Israel and move into a house stolen from a Palestinian family is as fraudulent as an African-American’s right to reparation checks in 2024.

 

[24and7]

Zionist=The people that claim to be “Real Israelites” but are not.. Jews was a made up term..The ones that worship the Talmud are fake Israelites and are known as the synagogue of Satan…And they will know God’s wrath..

 

[TerryP]

Groups of people, races, religions, nations, governments, states, organizations, corporations, etc., don’t have inalienable rights to life. Only individuals do. Read your Declaration of Independence to see that states may or may not deserve to exist. The “right” of a Brooklyn Jew to “return” to Israel and move into a house stolen from a Palestinian family is as fraudulent as an African-American’s right to reparation checks in 2024.

I don't see the disclaimer you are suggesting:

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

 

[musso]

I don't see the disclaimer you are suggesting:

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

Because it continues:

-- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

I haven't had time to rebut some of your points in threads about this topic in the past, but you have repeatedly conflated the existence of a group (and a state) with the existence of individuals. Many opponents of the state of Israel, if you pay careful attention, do not advocate at all for the extermination of Jews but rather the Jewish or Zionist state. And yet, conveniently, US and Western policy makers want us to conflate these two distinct things because it helps to obfuscate the anti-Western, anti-American, and anti-Israeli sentiment in the region. The best offense is to misrepresent your opponent's criticism of you. Hence, all the recent legislation and rhetorical tactics in the media to equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. The lobby needs endless US foreign aid and diplomatic immunity in the UN to survive, and so it must misrepresent legitimate criticism of Israeli colonial and racial supremacist policies.

 

[TerryP]

I haven't had time to rebut some of your points in threads about this topic in the past, but you have repeatedly conflated the existence of a group (and a state) with the existence of individuals.

That's just not true. I look at everything from the eyes of "it is one person." I've pointed to the "umbrella" ideal time and time again.

However, when you have a group of people who are hell bent on eliminating another group of people? There's literal genocide happening in other countries right now and no one is saying a damn thing about the stories coming from Africa. Because of their religious beliefs, how many are in prisons and work camps in China right now.

NONE of that is right. It's a literal case of the ability to live life, with a group, being suppressed. The persecution of groups, no matter what their stance, is not right. UNTIL they infringe on someone else's ability to live life, have liberty, and pursue happiness.

Such a simple concept people get confused on...

 

[musso]

However, when you have a group of people who are hell bent on eliminating another group of people?

And THAT would be Israel hellbent on eliminating the Palestinians.

Ever since the mandate system was imposed on Palestine by the Allies after WW1, the historical record clearly demonstrates it has been the native Arab Palestinians who have been systematically eliminated, as immigrants and extremist settlers take their place.

There's literal genocide happening in other countries right now and no one is saying a damn thing about the stories coming from Africa.

But you’re an American citizen and US tax payer, are you not? There’s a difference between atrocities committed by foreigners to which we are not active participants and other atrocities facilitated by our government in our name which we are forced to pay for. There’s also a difference between the kind of atrocities that make Americans targets for reprisals and other atrocities that don’t.

 

[TerryP]

And THAT would be Israel hellbent on eliminating the Palestinians.

No truth found here. None.

But you’re an American citizen and US tax payer, are you not? There’s a difference between atrocities committed by foreigners to which we are not active participants and other atrocities facilitated by our government in our name which we are forced to pay for. There’s also a difference between the kind of atrocities that make Americans targets for reprisals and other atrocities that don’t.

Okay. This is a weird comment.

I said, since the day it started, we don't need to be supporting wars (like Ukraine, among others.)

 

[musso]

No truth found here. None.

Providing reason or evidence to buttress your claim would make it more credible.

Okay. This is a weird comment.

After taking time off from this thread and rejoining it, it might seem weird since context has been lost. But I made this comment in response to you mentioning that lots of other atrocities happen without anyone caring. I was trying to establish why some people care about this issue more than other issues.

I said, since the day it started, we don't need to be supporting wars (like Ukraine, among others.)

I realize, but your stance on this issue has come across to me as tepid, at best. You keep defending one side over the other.

 

[TerryP]

Providing reason or evidence to buttress your claim would make it more credible.

Tel Aviv. One of the most inclusive cities in the world.

 

[TerryP]

I realize, but your stance on this issue has come across to me as tepid, at best. You keep defending one side over the other.

Which side? We're talking about Ukraine, right?