🏈 Line of Scrimmage

['65 Cobra]

This game was lost on the line of scrimmage. When I look at Clemson's depth chart, they list 9 guys on their offensive and defensive lines (Lawrence was suspended). On offense, FOUR out of FIVE of their offensive lineman made the ALL-ACC two-deep team this year. The fifth made the third team. They are ALL seniors or juniors and could be drafted this year.

On defense, of the four starting D-Linemen, three will likely be picked in the draft in the first round. The fourth will likely go later. And that doesn't even include Dexter Lawrence. They are all seniors except Ferrell.

That means that out of the 9 guys that started on their lines last night, literally ALL of them could be potentially playing in the NFL next year.

This isn't being discussed enough. We were still running the ball well. The best way to stop the onslaught of passing pressure is to run the ball. It also keeps their O off the field. Shame we got away from it.

 

[Tidestalker]

This game was lost on the line of scrimmage. When I look at Clemson's depth chart, they list 9 guys on their offensive and defensive lines (Lawrence was suspended). On offense, FOUR out of FIVE of their offensive lineman made the ALL-ACC two-deep team this year. The fifth made the third team. They are ALL seniors or juniors and could be drafted this year.

On defense, of the four starting D-Linemen, three will likely be picked in the draft in the first round. The fourth will likely go later. And that doesn't even include Dexter Lawrence. They are all seniors except Ferrell.

That means that out of the 9 guys that started on their lines last night, literally ALL of them could be potentially playing in the NFL next year.

This isn't being discussed enough. We were still running the ball well. The best way to stop the onslaught of passing pressure is to run the ball. It also keeps their O off the field. Shame we got away from it.

All of our DL and OL playing in last nights game will be drafted. A handful of them in the first round...

Talent disparity is not the issue... The scheme and inability to use quality depth on the DL hurt most. And the fact our 2 best DE/OLB's were not able to play

 

[#80]

With Miller out and Buggs playing on one leg really hurt last night.

 

['65 Cobra]

@Tidestalker "All of our DL and OL playing in last nights game will be drafted. A handful of them in the first round...

Talent disparity is not the issue... The scheme and inability to use quality depth on the DL hurt most. And the fact our 2 best DE/OLB's were not able to play"

Respectfully disagree regarding the talent point. Agree on the scheme point and would add failure to make adjustments.

On talent, It's not so much about talent disparity as it is talent maturity, though there is some disparity. To wit - Jonah will go in the first round. No one else. Ross will get drafted. Cotton won't, Wills won't (maybe UDFA), Leatherwood probably will but not till next year - when he is playing with more maturity and discipline. Clemson's D-Line has three of four that will likely go first round and this year. The fourth will likely go 2nd or 3rd. These guys are all first and second round NFL talent right now. There is a huge difference between 1st and 2nd round talent versus 4th through 7th round and UDFA talent.

On our D-Line, yes, Quinnen will go in the first. Raekwon won't as he slid substantially this year. Buggs will probably go in the 3rd. Jennings will go maybe in the 3rd or 4th. Their O-Line owned us. Yes, we didn't make many adjustments, but they have draft eligible and highly rated players across the line.

My point here is not so much to suggest that our talent is less, though I believe this year's draft may bear it out, but rather to draw attention to the fact that their line units (despite OU's award) were by far the best we'd seen all year. Give credit where it's due.

PS - I still think that had we continued to run the ball, the outcome may have been different - that was their weakness, not pass defense.

 

[footballer]

Our oline has been lacking development, motivation and desire (coaching) for several years. For me, the jury is still out on our first year dline coach. Many players once they get on campus and on the practice field find that they just do not have the desire to put in the work necessary to develop into a top talent. Some position coaches have IT, they can inspire and motivate players to become all world, no matter their high school star ranking, whether 5 star, 3 star or no freaking star, while other coaches just do not have IT.

 

[Bamabacker]

Our oline has been lacking development, motivation and desire (coaching) for several years. For me, the jury is still out on our first year dline coach. Many players once they get on campus and on the practice field find that they just do not have the desire to put in the work necessary to develop into a top talent. Some position coaches have IT, they can inspire and motivate players to become all world, no matter their high school star ranking, whether 5 star, 3 star or no freaking star, while other coaches just do not have IT.

Bologna....

Our only problem is the early departure of juniors over the past few years. The d-line depth gets exposed in the big games. When you're this good (perception or reality), great players and coaches are gonna leave for greater things. If Clemson continues winning attrition will take more players early as well as solid coaches. Part of success....

 

[EasyTider]

@Tidestalker "All of our DL and OL playing in last nights game will be drafted. A handful of them in the first round...

Talent disparity is not the issue... The scheme and inability to use quality depth on the DL hurt most. And the fact our 2 best DE/OLB's were not able to play"

Respectfully disagree regarding the talent point. Agree on the scheme point and would add failure to make adjustments.

On talent, It's not so much about talent disparity as it is talent maturity, though there is some disparity. To wit - Jonah will go in the first round. No one else. Ross will get drafted. Cotton won't, Wills won't (maybe UDFA), Leatherwood probably will but not till next year - when he is playing with more maturity and discipline. Clemson's D-Line has three of four that will likely go first round and this year. The fourth will likely go 2nd or 3rd. These guys are all first and second round NFL talent right now. There is a huge difference between 1st and 2nd round talent versus 4th through 7th round and UDFA talent.

On our D-Line, yes, Quinnen will go in the first. Raekwon won't as he slid substantially this year. Buggs will probably go in the 3rd. Jennings will go maybe in the 3rd or 4th. Their O-Line owned us. Yes, we didn't make many adjustments, but they have draft eligible and highly rated players across the line.

My point here is not so much to suggest that our talent is less, though I believe this year's draft may bear it out, but rather to draw attention to the fact that their line units (despite OU's award) were by far the best we'd seen all year. Give credit where it's due.

PS - I still think that had we continued to run the ball, the outcome may have been different - that was their weakness, not pass defense.

Wills is only a sophomore and will be drafted either as a junior or senior. He had some bad penalties towards season end but I’ve heard more than a few people who seem to know the game and position say he is already an elite run blocker in his 2nd year.

 

[94 Grad]

This isn't being discussed enough. We were still running the ball well. The best way to stop the onslaught of passing pressure is to run the ball. It also keeps their O off the field. Shame we got away from it.

I wouldn't say we got away from it... We just went to the pass in the red-zone and struggled with the pressures. I wish we would have mixed in some more runs in the redzone, but watching the film back Clemson was loading heaving in the box in the redzone to stop the run and the pass should have been more effective. Maybe different pass calls (a screen or two may have worked well).

The game was really a few plays away from being very different. We gave them a pic 6 and a TD on a 3 and 8 where the DB fell down at the line injured and gave up a 75 yard TD. That's 14 points (maybe the score anyway...but it was an easy 14 given). We drove down to the redzone 2 times (once inside the 5) and 1 time to the edge of the redzone at the 22 and all three times turned it over on downs. If we convert 2 of the 3 times with TD's then it's a tie game. Take the one FG we kicked from inside the 5 and make that one a TD and we're up.

Now, I know that's a bunch of if/ands/buts.... however, it does show this game much closer and more in line with the "stats" of the game than the score indicates.

There is no doubt, we lost. I'm not trying to deny that, just that our performance wasn't as "poor" as one would think by the score. If you go back and watch the game (ya, it's hard to do that) and really look at what's going on you'll see a much closer game. I really think this one teetered on just a few plays here and there...

And on that note, where everyone wants to crown Lawrence as the next coming of Christ... his game wasn't that outstanding. He had very little pressure and threw some pretty UGLY passes without pressure. He also had some WR make some pretty amazing catches. Now, he did throw at least 3 balls that were as beautifully placed as could be showcasing his potential... the reality is that most of his passes were decided presnap where he was throwing the ball. Credit to him for reading it and shame on us for not "baiting" him like CU did Tua's first INT. I do believe he's good and will be great as he learns more and more... but I really don't see that he did anything "special" the other night in their win other than he didn't put them in any "bad spots" from a mistake on his part.

 

[94 Grad]

Wills is only a sophomore and will be drafted either as a junior or senior. He had some bad penalties towards season end but I’ve heard more than a few people who seem to know the game and position say he is already an elite run blocker in his 2nd year.

I'm not sure I agree on #74. I know on many plays this year my frustration landed squarely on a whiff by #74. Good ole #70 was in the same boat with me this year. Neither one of 'em made me feel like they had the consistency to be depended on.

Both Leatherwood and Willis were good the majority of the time, no doubt... but they also seemed to be the ones that just whiffed on key plays... and I don't mean got beat... I mean whiffed. They're both only SO, correct... so maybe I'm expecting a bit too much.

 

[scottyhk]

This game was lost on the line of scrimmage. When I look at Clemson's depth chart, they list 9 guys on their offensive and defensive lines (Lawrence was suspended). On offense, FOUR out of FIVE of their offensive lineman made the ALL-ACC two-deep team this year. The fifth made the third team. They are ALL seniors or juniors and could be drafted this year.

On defense, of the four starting D-Linemen, three will likely be picked in the draft in the first round. The fourth will likely go later. And that doesn't even include Dexter Lawrence. They are all seniors except Ferrell.

That means that out of the 9 guys that started on their lines last night, literally ALL of them could be potentially playing in the NFL next year.

This isn't being discussed enough. We were still running the ball well. The best way to stop the onslaught of passing pressure is to run the ball. It also keeps their O off the field. Shame we got away from it.

I wouldn't say we got away from it... We just went to the pass in the red-zone and struggled with the pressures. I wish we would have mixed in some more runs in the redzone, but watching the film back Clemson was loading heaving in the box in the redzone to stop the run and the pass should have been more effective. Maybe different pass calls (a screen or two may have worked well).

The game was really a few plays away from being very different. We gave them a pic 6 and a TD on a 3 and 8 where the DB fell down at the line injured and gave up a 75 yard TD. That's 14 points (maybe the score anyway...but it was an easy 14 given). We drove down to the redzone 2 times (once inside the 5) and 1 time to the edge of the redzone at the 22 and all three times turned it over on downs. If we convert 2 of the 3 times with TD's then it's a tie game. Take the one FG we kicked from inside the 5 and make that one a TD and we're up.

Now, I know that's a bunch of if/ands/buts.... however, it does show this game much closer and more in line with the "stats" of the game than the score indicates.

There is no doubt, we lost. I'm not trying to deny that, just that our performance wasn't as "poor" as one would think by the score. If you go back and watch the game (ya, it's hard to do that) and really look at what's going on you'll see a much closer game. I really think this one tittered on just a few plays here and there...

And on that note, where everyone wants to crown Lawrence as the next coming of Christ... his game wasn't that outstanding. He had very little pressure and threw some pretty UGLY passes without pressure. He also had some WR make some pretty amazing catches. Now, he did throw at least 3 balls that were as beautifully placed as could be showcasing his potential... the reality is that most of his passes were decided presnap where he was throwing the ball. Credit to him for reading it and shame on us for not "baiting" him like CU did Tua's first INT. I do believe he's good and will be great as he learns more and more... but I really don't see that he did anything "special" the other night in their win other than he didn't put them in any "bad spots" from a mistake on his part.

This was the game I watched Monday night. We surely didn’t play our best game. But the game was not the blowout that some are making it out to be. It’s not all doom and gloom. And I hope we get the opportunity to play Clemson next year.

 

['65 Cobra]

This isn't being discussed enough. We were still running the ball well. The best way to stop the onslaught of passing pressure is to run the ball. It also keeps their O off the field. Shame we got away from it.

I wouldn't say we got away from it... We just went to the pass in the red-zone and struggled with the pressures. I wish we would have mixed in some more runs in the redzone, but watching the film back Clemson was loading heaving in the box in the redzone to stop the run and the pass should have been more effective. Maybe different pass calls (a screen or two may have worked well).

The game was really a few plays away from being very different. We gave them a pic 6 and a TD on a 3 and 8 where the DB fell down at the line injured and gave up a 75 yard TD. That's 14 points (maybe the score anyway...but it was an easy 14 given). We drove down to the redzone 2 times (once inside the 5) and 1 time to the edge of the redzone at the 22 and all three times turned it over on downs. If we convert 2 of the 3 times with TD's then it's a tie game. Take the one FG we kicked from inside the 5 and make that one a TD and we're up.

Now, I know that's a bunch of if/ands/buts.... however, it does show this game much closer and more in line with the "stats" of the game than the score indicates.

There is no doubt, we lost. I'm not trying to deny that, just that our performance wasn't as "poor" as one would think by the score. If you go back and watch the game (ya, it's hard to do that) and really look at what's going on you'll see a much closer game. I really think this one teetered on just a few plays here and there...

And on that note, where everyone wants to crown Lawrence as the next coming of Christ... his game wasn't that outstanding. He had very little pressure and threw some pretty UGLY passes without pressure. He also had some WR make some pretty amazing catches. Now, he did throw at least 3 balls that were as beautifully placed as could be showcasing his potential... the reality is that most of his passes were decided presnap where he was throwing the ball. Credit to him for reading it and shame on us for not "baiting" him like CU did Tua's first INT. I do believe he's good and will be great as he learns more and more... but I really don't see that he did anything "special" the other night in their win other than he didn't put them in any "bad spots" from a mistake on his part.

Great post! I would only add that I don't understand why Tosh didn't dial up more pressure and really mix it up on coverages and stunts, etc. As some others have mentioned in other threads, it seemed as though Tosh may have been in over his head and not capable of making in-game adjustments on the fly. I also thought that Locksley was less than creative in this one.

No doubt, Clemson took it to us, it just seems like we didn't adjust well enough and up to our standards during the game. I'm hoping that this adversity will make next years team stronger. We also need Tua to get fully healed so he can take off and run freely at times as well to neutralize the pressure.

 

[OriginalBamachris]

On the OLine, William's was getting blown out by smaller stronger playets.

On the DLine, Williams, Buggs, and Davis quit. They will not be elite at next level.