| FTBL Saban adaptation to the modern day spread offense.

[Davestwin]

I only wish Bama was better at it. Now I know I’m going to catch heat for saying it but Saban hasn’t adapted to the spread like I thought he would. He’s changed the type of players he’s recruiting and playing but not so much his schemes. No one in college football could consistently shutdown pro style offenses better than Saban. I mean I really thought he’d be one of the guys to crack the spread nut. So far, he hasn’t been able to do so consistently. Though he has compensated for it by dramatically changing his offensive mindset.

I’m old and old school which means I love great defenses. I’d much rather see Bama beat teams 24-7 than 57-40 … but that’s me. Basketball on grass will never appeal to me. I’ve been blessed that Bama has won 13 NC’s in my lifetime. The vast majority of them were teams with great defenses. Of course, my son thinks my style is boring but he also likes 12-10 baseball games so go figure!

 

[mando]

I love great D also Davestwin and when I brought it up in the past people just tell me you can't have both. I refuse to accept that. I believe the D can and should be much better than they have been. Put that with a lights out offense and you have an even more unstoppable machine.

 

[bamafan9201]

That's the problem with the spread offense. There's so much reads, zones to cover, men to swap and area to cover that its almost impossible unless you got a really good secondary and a dline who can consistently pressure the QB. NFL shuts down the spread more so because of the level of talent there and the speed is faster so you have smaller windows. In college even at the top level a window of 1 yard is enough to burn you for a TD. I don't think the spread will be the end of college's offensive changes but it definitely provides a night infinite possibilities out of it. Especially with the addition of the RPO and QB runs.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

I'm not sure you can completely shut down a dominant spread offense. That's why we have to have an offensive engine of our own. Coach Saban knows that sometimes a 42-31 and such victory is the only way to win. Yet, you still have to have the ability to run to close out a game. Georgia showed that last last year, and I believe we'll show it this year.

 

[Justneedme81]

I only wish Bama was better at it. Now I know I’m going to catch heat for saying it but Saban hasn’t adapted to the spread like I thought he would. He’s changed the type of players he’s recruiting and playing but not so much his schemes. No one in college football could consistently shutdown pro style offenses better than Saban. I mean I really thought he’d be one of the guys to crack the spread nut. So far, he hasn’t been able to do so consistently. Though he has compensated for it by dramatically changing his offensive mindset.

I’m old and old school which means I love great defenses. I’d much rather see Bama beat teams 24-7 than 57-40 … but that’s me. Basketball on grass will never appeal to me. I’ve been blessed that Bama has won 13 NC’s in my lifetime. The vast majority of them were teams with great defenses. Of course, my son thinks my style is boring but he also likes 12-10 baseball games so go figure!

Did he not adapt by going to nickel and dime base formation?

Did he not change the way LB plays in the scheme?

Did he not bring Peter Golding in for that reason?
His defense have evolved over the year.
Low scoring games isn't always fun. I admit I like to see shootout.. it's a great testament to the offense as a whole.

 

[BamaFan334]

I prefer mid-scoring games in the 20's, but hate 45-42 games. You get some offense and some defense, not one more than the other. Plus, you get the notion that you can in fact get a stop, or do in fact have the ability to score, unlike in other scenarios.

I just wish every time the ball goes in the air over 20 yards I'm not covering my eyes. When Surtain played for us, I wasn't worried, but other than him I have always been concerned about our defensive backs allowing deep pass plays. And that's Saban's baby is why I question it even more. I may be missing all the good they are in fact doing, but I still get concerned when I know we're playing a quarterback that can sling it. our defensive line and backers can't get to the quarterback every play.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Did he not bring Peter Golding in for that reason?

And ...just how good has that worked out?

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

I'm not a big Pete Golding fan either but I can see what he & CNS are doing to try to defend it. Nickle & Dime formations that confuse, cover, & tackle well. And also having DE/DL that get affect the QB. The issue for me has been the ILB play. We've had major injuries on all levels but the LB has been the worst over the last 4 years. Also, there has been no Alpha LB for some time. I'm hoping we have a few of those backing up To'o To'o so they will get the reps they need this year.

In short, I think CNS knows how to deal with the spread but the last few years, we've had some holes develop with the players that have made it very difficult to implement consistently. I think it is just a matter a time before that happens. Maybe this year with Oatis taking up more blocks to free up more defenders will help too. That's the biggest reason Jawja's Defense was so good last year PLUS an Alpha LB with Nakobe Dean.

 

[TerryP]

And ...just how good has that worked out?

@Davestwin

How many spread offenses has Bama (Golding) defended since he arrived in Tuscaloosa? Every team in the West will be running variations of the spread this season.

Hint: It'll be easier to count the number of teams that don't run a spread based offense.

 

[Justneedme81]

Opponents averaged against Bama:
2021- 20.1
2020-19.4
2019- 18.6
2018- 18.1
2017- 11.9

Lot of issues over the last few years weren't always on Peter.... but last season, Since Florida, the defense got better at stopping rushing yards... Defense allowed 2 300 yard passing .. and that's huge.

 

[Justneedme81]

I prefer mid-scoring games in the 20's, but hate 45-42 games. You get some offense and some defense, not one more than the other. Plus, you get the notion that you can in fact get a stop, or do in fact have the ability to score, unlike in other scenarios.

I just wish every time the ball goes in the air over 20 yards I'm not covering my eyes. When Surtain played for us, I wasn't worried, but other than him I have always been concerned about our defensive backs allowing deep pass plays. And that's Saban's baby is why I question it even more. I may be missing all the good they are in fact doing, but I still get concerned when I know we're playing a quarterback that can sling it. our defensive line and backers can't get to the quarterback every play.

Phase in/out concepts:


That's how he operates... and it works pretty well . Most NFL team practice that.

 

[Justneedme81]

I'm not a big Pete Golding fan either but I can see what he & CNS are doing to try to defend it. Nickle & Dime formations that confuse, cover, & tackle well. And also having DE/DL that get affect the QB. The issue for me has been the ILB play. We've had major injuries on all levels but the LB has been the worst over the last 4 years. Also, there has been no Alpha LB for some time. I'm hoping we have a few of those backing up To'o To'o so they will get the reps they need this year.

In short, I think CNS knows how to deal with the spread but the last few years, we've had some holes develop with the players that have made it very difficult to implement consistently. I think it is just a matter a time before that happens. Maybe this year with Oatis taking up more blocks to free up more defenders will help too. That's the biggest reason Jawja's Defense was so good last year PLUS an Alpha LB with Nakobe Dean.

I'm confused by that..... ILB has been the worst over the last 4 years? What bout last year? the year before? It wasn't bad at all.

Alapha LB? Back up?

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

I'm confused by that..... ILB has been the worst over the last 4 years? What bout last year? the year before? It wasn't bad at all.

Alapha LB? Back up?

We've had starting LB's that get injured in fall camp or early in the season that essentially are gone for most if not all of the season.

Alpha not Alapha. When I say an Alpha LB, I am referring to R McClain, D Hightower, CJ Mosely, R Foster, type LB that has a defensive leadership presence like a true Alpha dog is wolf pack, elephant heard, etc. Surely your familiar with the metaphor? We have NOT had this true Alpha leader at LB since Rueben Foster. I thought Dylan Moses was going to be that guy after filling in for the depleted roster in 2017 he never turned into that guy. To'o To'o is not that guy as of last season. Maybe he'll get it this year. I sure hope so. And there are some true beasts right behind him in Kendric Blackshire that is the backup to To'o To'o that may have that spot soon.

 

[TerryP]

When I say an Alpha LB, I am referring to R McClain, D Hightower, CJ Mosely, R Foster, type LB that has a defensive leadership presence like a true Alpha dog is wolf pack, elephant heard, etc. Surely your familiar with the metaphor? We have NOT had this true Alpha leader at LB since Rueben Foster.

I believe there needs to be a caveat here.

We saw the transition of Bama's focus on offense start with the hiring of Locks in the spring of 2016: Foster's last season at Bama. The other three were mainstays in the defense, yes, but also in an era where Bama was playing out of their base set the majority of the time because they weren't facing many spread offenses.

2012 was the first season we saw a spread based team on a annual basis when Sumlin took the job in College Station.

I understand the feeling "we haven't seen an Alpha in that position." We also have to acknowledge Donta, Rolando, CJ, and others in that era weren't playing ball in this "modern day spread offensive era."

 

[JoseyWalesTheOutlaw]

The two ILBers have to be Elite these days to counter the spread. Just being good will not get it done. The days of the 6' 5" 250 lb ILBers are Ovah.

 

['65 Cobra]

Better get used to it. It's not just schemes - the rules favor offenses and promote scoring. Saban has adjusted by installing an offense that scores more points. We're not going to see a defense that allows just 11 points per game average anymore.

I don't like it either, but it's part of what makes Saban so great - he adapts as the game changes.

 

[TerryP]

The two ILBers have to be Elite these days to counter the spread. Just being good will not get it done. The days of the 6' 5" 250 lb ILBers are Ovah.

"The two ILBers have to be Elite these days to counter the spread" with an elite QB.

Wouldn't you agree that we haven't seen elite play out of the Ohio State linebackers and the Buckeyes have been very successful against spread offenses until they run into an elite QB.

We've talked about Henderson and Jefferson. We both can see the possibility of these two having some elite performances that could come against Bama. I don't believe we'll see either of these two perform at that level for 12 games this season: two or three I expect. If the ILB play on either team is "par," a par QB performance won't spell automatic success for their spread formations and calls, right?

On a related note:

We've seen Bama flip back and forth from nickel to dime more often these last few years. 12-15% of the snaps we've seen them in their "Rabbits:" I expect to see a lot more 4-1-6 looks this season. Remaining healthy, they've got great rotations with the two inside linemen and with Turner, Anderson, and Braswell on the edges.

 

[JoseyWalesTheOutlaw]

JMO but The Ohio State doesn't have to contend with high power spread offenses for the most part unless they're playing someone outside of the Big 10. The athletes (receivers/backs/TE's) are so much more skilled these days which makes the spread even more difficult to slow.

If Nick didn't believe Pete was doing a good job for Bama, then he would have sent him packing a couple of years back.

 

[Justneedme81]

I believe there needs to be a caveat here.

We saw the transition of Bama's focus on offense start with the hiring of Locks in the spring of 2016: Foster's last season at Bama. The other three were mainstays in the defense, yes, but also in an era where Bama was playing out of their base set the majority of the time because they weren't facing many spread offenses.

2012 was the first season we saw a spread based team on a annual basis when Sumlin took the job in College Station.

I understand the feeling "we haven't seen an Alpha in that position." We also have to acknowledge Donta, Rolando, CJ, and others in that era weren't playing ball in this "modern day spread offensive era."

I think you nailed it. The evolution of defense changed over the time, and so did the personnel.. I don't think Henry did bad job last year. it was his first year and he often got people lined up right. I do expect the defense to be agressive and We don't need one person to be alpha. the whole team can lead by example.

 

[Justneedme81]

The two ILBers have to be Elite these days to counter the spread. Just being good will not get it done. The days of the 6' 5" 250 lb ILBers are Ovah.

Funny you mentioned that. I noticed that on the roster Jeremiah Alexander- 6'1 258lbs. he is only one close to that weight. He's a freshmen, so I'm guessing he'll drop 20lbs between now and next summer.

We want LB to be fast and twitchy, because they have to be able to run with Slot receiver or TE.