Auburn's HCs

[Rob.Roy]

Hello All and RTR!!

I've recently got into a debate with an Auburn cohort discussing the departures of the last 5 of 6 coaches they have had. All 5 ended on shutout losses to Bama. With the exception of Bowden who he contends quit rather than being forced out even though he seems open to that. While any of those teams of Au were going downhill, the last 3 came off winning seasons and bowl wins if I am not mistaking?

Anyway, what is your thoughts on Au putting a high price on their coaches heads to degrading losses to Bama?

Thanks.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Welcome and Roll Tide!

Bama losses are usually a last straw on disappointing seasons.

 

[sk33tr]

as has been said more times than i care to count.....

auburn measures its success rate on wins vs ALABAMA. to them, this is the ONLY game that matters.

ALABAMA measures its success rate on conference and national championships. for us, the post-season matters so much more.

 

[bamaraider]

Exactly what Sk33tr said. They are the epitome of little brothers. Just look at how they celebrated their win over us in basketball. They acted like they had just won March Madness. None of them know Alabama holds the record by more than 30 games.

It really is sad to see people live every day to just degrade on school because they're labeled as "rivals". I see Tennessee as a bigger rival than Auburn honestly because they're a better program and I believe we've had more historic games with them than we've had with AU. Auburn fans live to hate Alabama. They say stupid shit like they live and love Auburn University, but you can rarely tell because all they seem to care about is what Alabama is doing. That is the major difference between us and them. I'll give you an example. They lost to Georgia 35-0 in 2012, but because we lost to A&M that same day, they rolled those stupid trees. I attended home coming against South Carolina in 09, and when the announcer said AU lost to UK at home, people cheered but really did not care. It wasn't even much of a cheer, more like "okay, that's nice".

 

[rammerjammer]

This pic says it all.(this is in the defensive meeting room) As stated earlier by <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@sk33tr<!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->, their measuring stick is us.

 

[JGD]

Hello All and RTR!!

I've recently got into a debate with an Auburn cohort discussing the departures of the last 5 of 6 coaches they have had. All 5 ended on shutout losses to Bama. With the exception of Bowden who he contends quit rather than being forced out even though he seems open to that. While any of those teams of Au were going downhill, the last 3 came off winning seasons and bowl wins if I am not mistaking?

Anyway, what is your thoughts on Au putting a high price on their coaches heads to degrading losses to Bama?

Thanks.

Let me correct my friends post....

This is a civil debate. ZipDrive contends that the ONLY reason that Dye, Chizik, Tuberville, and Bowden were dismissed at Auburn was due to losses to Alabama in their final seasons. He contends that losses to LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, UGA, and Arkansas played no factor in the decision. He insinuates that the outcome would be the same if we were 11-1 with our only loss being to Alabama.

I challenged him to post his theory on an Alabama message board to see if his fellow Alabama fans agree with his comment.

For the record, I don't disagree that losing to Alabama is always a factor. I don't discount that the Iron Bowl is a huge game for both schools. My argument is simply that there are multiple factors that contributed to the departure of those 4 coaches. Each finished with losing seasons. Dye resigned before the Alabama game and had gotten the school in hot water with the NCAA. Bowden left before the Iron Bowl. Every coach had losses to all of our major rivals in their final year.

Thank you for your objective posts regarding this friendly debate.

 

[bamaraider]

Of course its not the only reason. Mike Shula didn't just get fired cause he lost to Auburn every year. Did it play a huge role? Yes. No one wants to lose to their arch rival every year. But there are a ton of other things that lead up to it. Tubbs got fired cause he shit the bed in his final year. The 36-0 loss was just icing on the cake for them. Chizik went from 8-5 to 3-9 and his fans gave up on him.

 

[Rob.Roy]

Of course its not the only reason. Mike Shula didn't just get fired cause he lost to Auburn every year. Did it play a huge role? Yes. No one wants to lose to their arch rival every year. But there are a ton of other things that lead up to it. Tubbs got fired cause he shit the bed in his final year. The 36-0 loss was just icing on the cake for them. Chizik went from 8-5 to 3-9 and his fans gave up on him.

Bamaraider, thanks for your feedback but I did lay out to JGD that their demise did come off previous winning seasons. I've also stated during my debates with him (you would have no knowledge of this but will include) that losing to Bama was the nail. Tuberville had 8 wins or more before his 2008 campaign. Chizik the same. Maybe coincidence but of the last 4 out of 6 coaches they have had... they ended their careers with shutout losses to the Tide. Dye announced his resignation during the week of the 1992 IB. Tuberville, while having a slump year was mentioned merely as a hot seat like we all hear all the time from any coach not having a good year. I told JGD earlier that I did not count Bowden since he was not allowed to finish the season. But I contend that Bama is a measuring stick on whether you make it or not a AU. We have it to a degree and if we ousted based on not beating AU... Curry would have been gone in year 2 as would have Shula.

 

[TerryP]

This thread made me start to think a bit...

Shula, DuBose, fRan, Curry, Perkins, Whitworth, Drew...all lost to Auburn in the last season in Tuscaloosa.

Bryant and Stallings didn't.

Going back further we're getting into the era where the two teams didn't meet.

 

[Rob.Roy]

On that...

This thread made me start to think a bit...

Shula, DuBose, fRan, Curry, Perkins, Whitworth, Drew...all lost to Auburn in the last season in Tuscaloosa.

Bryant and Stallings didn't.

Going back further we're getting into the era where the two teams didn't meet.

While Whitworth went on one of the worst stretches in UA history.. Only he, Dubose and Shula were fired and Shula went 4 straight losses. Dubose went to Moore saying he could not control his staff and was coming to a halt with the Means situation.

Both Perkins and Curry left. While Curry's was more of a step down... we could say the same about the move Malzahn made to Arkansas St by taking a pay cut and more responsibility.

I believe sk33tr said it best with:

as has been said more times than i care to count.....

auburn measures its success rate on wins vs ALABAMA. to them, this is the ONLY game that matters.

ALABAMA measures its success rate on conference and national championships. for us, the post-season matters so much more.

 

[TerryP]

[MENTION=20154]zipdrive[/MENTION] I don't know where you get the impression that DuBose went to Coach Moore and said such. At that point in his life, self-introspection wasn't his strong suit. Hell, he didn't possess the ability.

That said, I realize who was fired and who wasn't. :biggrin_blue: I brought those thoughts up because, yet again, it shows a line of demarcation between two groups of coaches.

Side note: Yes, it was a step down for Curry when it comes to the prestige of the school, program, and position. More than that, it was a stupid financial decision. This is a subject, in and of itself, deserving a thread of its own.

 

[TerryP]

BTW, [MENTION=20154]zipdrive[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20160]JGD[/MENTION]...

'preciate you guys choosing this forum for this discussion. I hope both of you stick around and join us in our other meandering conversations...

 

[Rob.Roy]

[MENTION=12209]TerryP[/MENTION] I heard this back in the day. There's a portion on rollbamaroll.com that talks about it.

"After the game, Dubose gave his resignation to Mal, but Mal refused to accept. Dubose knew he had lost the team and just how badly things had gotten, but from Mal's perspective there was really no use in letting Dubose go at that point in time. "

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2008/3/5/114320/6815

Like you, I don't like to bring up Curry either. Knowing Bowden was ready to accept the job and our lovely AD and president go with a below par Ga Tech coach..I choose to just try and wipe that from my memory.


[MENTION=20160]JGD[/MENTION] see we don't oust our Buster Brown's in the middle of the season.

 

[TerryP]

[MENTION=20154]zipdrive[/MENTION]

You'll find I'm a pain in the ass. Here's one reason why. Earlier you said, "Dubose went to Moore saying he could not control his staff and was coming to a halt with the Means situation.."

The article you linked mentions '"After the game, Dubose gave his resignation to Mal, but Mal refused to accept. Dubose knew he had lost the team and just how badly things had gotten, but from Mal's perspective there was really no use in letting Dubose go at that point in time. "'

Two different things.

I was around Tuscaloosa back then, and more importantly was around DuBose quite a bit. It's my impression he'd didn't have the self-awareness to understand he'd lost the team. More importantly, even if he did understand he had, he certainly didn't understand how/why.

What the writer for RBR is saying there is his impression. It contradicts mine.

Damn, memories. I remember sitting in a bar one afternoon on "The Strip." The Back Porch as a matter of fact...talking about why Moore didn't just fire him, much less let him step aside. I recall a few things that crossed my mind that day. One, it was going into the fourth game of the season against an Arkansas team that wasn't very good. What good would firing him, or letting him go, serve? If he was fired, who do you hire as interim? Woody? Ronnie? Ellis? Dabo?

It was a really bad, BAD, situation...geez,

Thanks for the flashback!!! :sarca:

 

[Rob.Roy]

Like I said, I had heard it back then. I didn't hang out with the man to corroborate the gist of the meeting but the article stated that he felt he lost control of the team... staff could be included in that. But if you have prior knowledge, that's fine. It's all good.

Really the main point of this post was the significance that AU places on the IB game. Not everyone is going to agree but it is my contention that it does play the biggest role in there coaches success. We do too, but I do not think its as important, otherwise Saban wouldn't be getting a raise.

 

[bamaraider]

It does play a huge role in their coaches success. I really would find it hard to believe that if Dabo coached at the barn and went 0-5 against Alabama, he would still have his job. But of course, he probably would not have the same success at the barn as he does at Clemson now due to strength of schedule. The IB is important to both fan bases and programs, but no one really hides the fact that they have an inferiority complex and it means more to them than to us. Even Charles Barkley has said that is true.

This is an odd comparison, but bare with me. Say their (AU) HC is like Peyton Manning's legacy. If he wins the SB, he undoubtedly goes down as the best QB ever. But now that he has lost, he's just going be discussed as ONE OF the best ever, instead of the best ever and be remembered for his post-season woes. That would be like Auburn's HC. They can have all the success in the world, but if they don't win that big one against Alabama, they'll really never live up to their expectations and it'll be the con on their career. Not to say they would fire him over it, but I doubt the barner folk would look back and call him one of the greats.

 

[Rob.Roy]

[MENTION=17619]bamaraider[/MENTION] Exactly!

But take into account Tubs middle finger game, gets shutout and packing his bags Monday. Both he and Chizik had one bad year on paper and their both hitting the dusty trail that following Monday. Dye just happen to plan his during the middle of the week. I'd say he is the exception with Ramsey and bad season previous but IB is your do or die at Barn.

 

[JGD]

Like I said, I had heard it back then. I didn't hang out with the man to corroborate the gist of the meeting but the article stated that he felt he lost control of the team... staff could be included in that. But if you have prior knowledge, that's fine. It's all good.

Really the main point of this post was the significance that AU places on the IB game. Not everyone is going to agree but it is my contention that it does play the biggest role in there coaches success. We do too, but I do not think its as important, otherwise Saban wouldn't be getting a raise.

Zipdrive is misrepresenting his original argument again. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I have had to listen to this argument over email for several days. He has been extremely specific that the ONLY reason Auburn coaches have left was due to losses to Alabama. There were no other factors involved.

To be fair, I'll admit that the Iron Bowl is the biggest regular season game of the year for us year in and year out from a fan perspective. I honestly don't believe it is any different for Alabama. Yes, there are years where other regular season games have more significance. LSU in 2011 and 2012 are good examples for Bama, but when it comes down to it, no one likes to lose that game. The airwaves are littered with fans of both schools talking about each other 365 days a year. We don't talk about UT, LSU, UGA, or any other school that much. It is the regular season game that we both live for (IMHO).

I'm not going to go as far as ZipDrive and say that some of the Alabama coaches that have been let go was a direct result of losing to Auburn, but it has played a role every bit as much as our head coaches, possibly more. There were a lot of factors with Shula, but the fact that he couldn't beat Auburn had a something to do with it. Curry left on his own, but he was under a lot of pressure. From my memories, Alabama fans didn't like him from the beginning. A lot of that had to do with the fact that he never could beat Auburn while he was at GT. He failed to beat Auburn every year at Bama was well. The fan base was not happy with that, and was a source of a lot of the pressure that led him to leave for Kentucky. I'm not trying to make an argument out of this. What Alabama does with their coaches is Alabama's business. I only offer that up to rebut Zip's assertions.

Respectfully, I do take exception to the perception that Auburn feels like little brother. I think our accomplishments speak for themselves over the past 30 years. I'm sure there are some Auburn fans that may feel that way, but personally, I do not feel like Auburn is anyone's little brother or sister. Alabama has accomplished great things. I respect that, but Auburn has had our fair share of success.

 

[TerryP]

It's just my opinion, but the day I thought "this is Tubs last year" was in January. It's wasn't after the Iron Bowl.

When we saw the stories hit the media, state-wide, that while Tubs was in Arkansas duck hunting Saban was recruiting and getting verbal commitments the tables turned on Tubs for the last time.

3-2 win against Mississippi State was horrible. But, the loss to Vandy? There's your nails in his coffin...he was gone LONG before the loss to Bama.

 

[planomateo]

It's just my opinion, but the day I thought "this is Tubs last year" was in January. It's wasn't after the Iron Bowl.

When we saw the stories hit the media, state-wide, that while Tubs was in Arkansas duck hunting Saban was recruiting and getting verbal commitments the tables turned on Tubs for the last time.

3-2 win against Mississippi State was horrible. But, the loss to Vandy? There's your nails in his coffin...he was gone LONG before the loss to Bama.

This.